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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Non-binary biological boy at DD's girls' school: toilets

276 replies

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:08

Hello, a non-binary biological boy has started at DD's girls' school.

Are there any regulations around what toilets they need to use? I just wondered what the actual legal position on this is. Thank you.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/01/2023 19:05

And children never seek attention?

Manderleyagain · 18/01/2023 19:05

I haven't read the whole thread but have read all of op's posts.
I'm sure you're getting good info on the loos, but that seems to be s subsidiary issue to me. I would imagine the school sold itself as specialising in girls education, providing a female only environment. They are not providing what they have agreed to sell you if they are now going to be admitting boys who id as non binary. They have chosen this instead of keeping the school single sex. Even if this kid has the pc of gender reassignment (v debatable,) it's still lawful to decline admission. So why have they decided to do this instead of providing what ppl are paying for?

toocold54 · 18/01/2023 19:05

Non-binary means doesn’t identify with either gender and actually shouldn’t be using either sex toilet.

They should not feel any more comfortable using a girls toilet over a boys toilet.

I actually think this person is a biological girl which is why they’re being made to use the girls toilets.

Have you spoken to the school?

I would write an email to the head and say that your DD and others have expressed concerns that a child of male sex is using the female toilets and can they confirm if this is correct or not.

arethereanyleftatall · 18/01/2023 19:05

@findmybalance
Nope. We're talking about the parents who decided to send their child who is saying he is neither male nor female, to a girls school. Why would they do that?

findmybalance · 18/01/2023 19:06

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/01/2023 18:58

He is not trans.

Misgendering!

And whichever other sheep poster was quick to come and make tne same comment.
.

I missed the apostrophes as you have all been using 'he-.

I do hope I will be forgiven for my immortal sins of making an error on mumsnet to those who know all about everything.

PerilousErection · 18/01/2023 19:06

You chose - and are paying for - a single sex girls school. Many studies show being taught in single sex schools leads to better academic outcomes for girls - higher grades and more uptake of STEM subjects. Putting the whole non binary thing aside surely the school is in breach of contract?

Even the old head of the school that had the incident with the bullied pupil Julie Bindel wrote about stated years ago she'd never let in a male-born pupil.

Xiaoxiong · 18/01/2023 19:07

@Lilgamesh2 I also think this is likely.

OP I would write to the school to confirm they remain a single sex environment, regardless of gender identity. I wouldn't initially mention the toilet or changing room situations, the overall change of single sex to mixed sex has all sorts of ramifications beyond those. You'd need to see a risk assessment, for one thing.

Just confirm whether there is a biologically male child (whether non binary or not) at the school first before going down the rabbit hole of legislation.

DarkDayforMN · 18/01/2023 19:09

You are talking about a child.

I hope all you mean people who implied that a child might be an attention seeker feel suitably chastised now. Next you'll be suggesting that children are bad at making medical decisions, or something equally blasphemous.

(Though of course they were actually talking about the parents who enable inappropriate attention seeking behaviour from their children, instead of trying some parenting.)

JellySaurus · 18/01/2023 19:10

It doesn't matter whether you call this child a boy or a banana, or how he self-describes, he is male and therefore should not be admitted to a single sex provision for girls. Not even if his friends from prep have gone there. And especially where no provision has been made for the girls' privacy, and the girls are expected to pretend that he is not male.

lljkk · 18/01/2023 19:10

in DD's school the biological girls would adopt the non-binary child, like a pet. I'd have zero worries.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 18/01/2023 19:11

He is not trans
They are non binary

Thought non binary fell under the big trans umbrella?

Non binary is nonsense.
If you're not born it how can you be it if gender is meant to be innate?

If it's not 'trans' then it won't have any protection under gender reassignment will it.

OP is the boy in 6th form, some single sex schools have mixed sex in 6th form?

findmybalance · 18/01/2023 19:11

DarkDayforMN · 18/01/2023 19:09

You are talking about a child.

I hope all you mean people who implied that a child might be an attention seeker feel suitably chastised now. Next you'll be suggesting that children are bad at making medical decisions, or something equally blasphemous.

(Though of course they were actually talking about the parents who enable inappropriate attention seeking behaviour from their children, instead of trying some parenting.)

That is an appalling post.

You are no better than anyone else.

ittakes2 · 18/01/2023 19:13

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 18/01/2023 17:16

When we did school visits back in October, all the schools had toilets which were self contained units (floor to ceiling doors) and these areas were open to the corridors. I was surprised, but think it's better from a safety perspective.

Does your school have these loos? If so, boys and girls use any as they are single enclosed units (sinks and sani bins in all).

My daughter's all girl private school have taken the main doors off the toilets....but the doors to the cubicles are not floor to ceiling and she said you can see the girls feet under the doors and hear toilet noises as you walk down the corridors. I feel sorry for the girls! A bet a few are sadly going to develop issues from avoiding using the toilets.

DarkDayforMN · 18/01/2023 19:14

That is an appalling post.

Oh well, at least it wasn't a random personal attack without even a token gesture in the direction of an argument or point.

toocold54 · 18/01/2023 19:14

Years ago I worked for a very well known private boy's school. They had one lone female pupil (poor kid). She was the daughter of a member of staff, as staff were allowed to send their DCs at a substantial discount. Thus was the only way a girl could attend. Presumably the perk had to be expanded to allow daughters as well as sons so as not to discriminate?

I think this is the most likely scenario or something similar but the school needs to ensure that this child uses the staff bathroom or something and I would be complaining about the bathroom situation rather than then being there.

A girl would not be safe using the bathroom in an all boys school and so surely there are protocols for this sort of thing.

findmybalance · 18/01/2023 19:15

DarkDayforMN · 18/01/2023 19:14

That is an appalling post.

Oh well, at least it wasn't a random personal attack without even a token gesture in the direction of an argument or point.

Hardly random.

You've just suggested on a public forum that parents of trans or non binary children are just not good parents. That is a shocking thing to say.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/01/2023 19:17

“Adopt them like a pet”??? You mean the girl’s will have already learned to put a males wants before their own

brilliant - that’s exactly what we want girls to learn, to put themselves second 🤦🏻‍♀️

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/01/2023 19:18

And whichever other sheep poster was quick to come and make tne same comment.

How rude! There's no excuse, do better.

lljkk · 18/01/2023 19:20

We adopted a needy guy in the office like a pet. We being a group of males & females.

I think there is similar adoption behaviour when the needy person is an Afghan refugee (girl) or someone who just lost a pet (pet-loser of any sex). Sex/gender isn't what triggers the adoption behaviour. I'd say sex-gender is irrelevant, it's sensing need for support.

arethereanyleftatall · 18/01/2023 19:20

118 posts in, and only one poster who has still fallen for this bullshit. #womensayno

BloodAndFire · 18/01/2023 19:21

lljkk · 18/01/2023 19:10

in DD's school the biological girls would adopt the non-binary child, like a pet. I'd have zero worries.

You've put your daughter on permanent contraception, then?

DarkDayforMN · 18/01/2023 19:22

You've just suggested on a public forum that parents of trans or non binary children are just not good parents.

No, I've suggested that the parents of this specific boy who are sending him to a girl's school are failing in their job as parents. I'll go further - they're cultivating in their child the notion that he is (or they is) special and the normal rules that apply to other people don't apply to them.

That kind of thinking is, of course, not special at all - it's absolutely normal in small children, who are egocentric. But this kind of egocentric thinking is not a recipe for happiness in adult life. It is the duty of parents to teach their children that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people have rights too (like the right of the girls in this case to the single sex school their parents are paying for). These parents are failing at this basic parenting duty.

This should all go without saying among a group of adults, quite honestly. That you are (pretending to be?) shocked and appalled by it to the point of attacking people is... well.

BloodAndFire · 18/01/2023 19:22

lljkk · 18/01/2023 19:20

We adopted a needy guy in the office like a pet. We being a group of males & females.

I think there is similar adoption behaviour when the needy person is an Afghan refugee (girl) or someone who just lost a pet (pet-loser of any sex). Sex/gender isn't what triggers the adoption behaviour. I'd say sex-gender is irrelevant, it's sensing need for support.

So a young person who identifies as non-binary is the same as an animal, and the same as an Afghani refugee. Er. WTF

MuffytheWooWooSlayer · 18/01/2023 19:22

arethereanyleftatall · 18/01/2023 19:20

118 posts in, and only one poster who has still fallen for this bullshit. #womensayno

I wonder whether said poster has a daughter? Seriously doubt it.

arethereanyleftatall · 18/01/2023 19:24

DarkDayforMN · 18/01/2023 19:22

You've just suggested on a public forum that parents of trans or non binary children are just not good parents.

No, I've suggested that the parents of this specific boy who are sending him to a girl's school are failing in their job as parents. I'll go further - they're cultivating in their child the notion that he is (or they is) special and the normal rules that apply to other people don't apply to them.

That kind of thinking is, of course, not special at all - it's absolutely normal in small children, who are egocentric. But this kind of egocentric thinking is not a recipe for happiness in adult life. It is the duty of parents to teach their children that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people have rights too (like the right of the girls in this case to the single sex school their parents are paying for). These parents are failing at this basic parenting duty.

This should all go without saying among a group of adults, quite honestly. That you are (pretending to be?) shocked and appalled by it to the point of attacking people is... well.

Brilliant post, worth repeating!