Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Non-binary biological boy at DD's girls' school: toilets

276 replies

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:08

Hello, a non-binary biological boy has started at DD's girls' school.

Are there any regulations around what toilets they need to use? I just wondered what the actual legal position on this is. Thank you.

OP posts:
titchy · 18/01/2023 19:28

princessleah1 · 18/01/2023 19:04

I know a teacher in a single sex girlsstate school onsoith London. They have a trans boy i.e a girl who identifies as a boy. Perhaps they should be asked to leave and go to the boys state school, where they'd not survive for long!

You've kind of missed the point there! A trans boy is female so would not be able to go to a boys school. As an aside, many girls schools now have girls who identify as boys - surprised your friend only has one!

Ofcourseshecan · 18/01/2023 19:30

TheaBrandt · 18/01/2023 17:57

A local family are trying to get their son into my dds girls state school. The fearsome headmistress is having none of it.

Good for her! OP’s school should contact all parents to admit they’ve allowed a boy in.

GrumpyPanda · 18/01/2023 19:31

lljkk · 18/01/2023 19:20

We adopted a needy guy in the office like a pet. We being a group of males & females.

I think there is similar adoption behaviour when the needy person is an Afghan refugee (girl) or someone who just lost a pet (pet-loser of any sex). Sex/gender isn't what triggers the adoption behaviour. I'd say sex-gender is irrelevant, it's sensing need for support.

Are you also arguing that a group of boys at a boys' school would "adopt" a girl in this situation "like a pet"? Is that a realistic scenario?

Smartiepants79 · 18/01/2023 19:33

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/01/2023 19:17

“Adopt them like a pet”??? You mean the girl’s will have already learned to put a males wants before their own

brilliant - that’s exactly what we want girls to learn, to put themselves second 🤦🏻‍♀️

Exactly! I send my girls to a forward thinking girls only school for a reason.
So that they learn that their education matters. That being female can be incredible.
And because it is a space in which they don’t have to be sexually harassed.

I also wouldn’t want my child being treated like some pet project. It’s just messed up.

VerbenaGirl · 18/01/2023 19:35

Lilgamesh2 · 18/01/2023 19:00

I think this whole thing is so bonkers the OPs first step has to be to verify whether the DD has the right end of the stick.

I think the non binary person is probably biologically female and the rumour mill has gone wild.

Might be wrong tho!

Absolutely!

findmybalance · 18/01/2023 19:36

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/01/2023 19:18

And whichever other sheep poster was quick to come and make tne same comment.

How rude! There's no excuse, do better.

Nah. thanks though

BoredOfThisMansWorld · 18/01/2023 19:39

Ofcourseshecan · 18/01/2023 19:30

Good for her! OP’s school should contact all parents to admit they’ve allowed a boy in.

Show quote history

What about the girl who didn't get a place?

What about all the other boys who might've wanted the option of studying with girls, was this process explained to them as an option too?

Lots of people try and get kids into the oversubscribed church school near me by suddenly becoming very regular worshippers. Falsifying address is pretty common too. Good thing it's impossible to lie about gender ID.

Grumpybutfunny · 18/01/2023 20:36

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/01/2023 19:17

“Adopt them like a pet”??? You mean the girl’s will have already learned to put a males wants before their own

brilliant - that’s exactly what we want girls to learn, to put themselves second 🤦🏻‍♀️

Honestly that's not what it means. Adopting like a pet is a term used for teenage girls mothering someone or something. Private schools are actually more likely to be tolerant to issue like this, as parents are less likely to be closed minded lead by the media screaming omg woman are losing right (hint we're not). The current generations (infact most millennials and younger) don't see gender as related to biological to sex. Single sex schools or indeed anything are less popular as girls don't feel inferior to men and in need of protection unlike some older adults who seem obsessed with biological sex.

The fact the school aren't making provision for him in the form of say disabled toilet access (what our school did) or access to the male teacher toilet makes me think this poor pupil is biologically female, dresses/looks like a boy and doesn't identify as either.

Most modern schools have single cubicles with sink outside on the main corridor that are mixed sex.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/01/2023 20:44

I went to a single sex school & as a consequence didn’t learn to put boys needs before my own. I soon learned when I went to university how much men were puzzled by the fact I didn’t subsume my needs to theirs.

They’re teenage girls, their job is not to “mother”, look after, molly coddle or give up their spaces to a teenage boy who feels NB (whatever that means). Christ like teenage girls don’t have it hard enough as it is

and no this is not a teenage girl, the OP had been clear that the child concerned is male

BreatheAndFocus · 18/01/2023 21:08

I’d try to find out more about the NB person’s sex. Not saying that this is true for your DD but I’ve found a surprising number of teens now judge someone’s sex on their superficial presentation. If this person has taken cross-sex hormones, then they could be female but ostensibly look ‘male’ enough to fool some pupils. In addition, them actually being male would be a more popular topic of conversation and rumour-spreading than the more likely scenario of them being female and NB.

GettingItOutThere · 18/01/2023 21:11

country has gone effing mental.

thanks internet for allowing our kids to become corrupted and influenced by this non binary/fluid/whatever other crap they come out with on a weekly basis

I would be writing to the head, i would not be impressed

BellaAmorosa · 18/01/2023 21:15

Smartiepants79 · 18/01/2023 19:00

What I never understand about situations such as this (which I’ve thankfully never come across in real life) is the thought processes of the parents of the ‘non-binary’ child. Why would you choose to send your child to a single sex school (of the opposite sex) why not a mixed sex school where they can identify as they wish but blend in better as there are facilities for both sexes. They might as well have put a big sign around a their neck saying ‘I’m different to everybody else’.
I have to admit to finding the whole gender dysphoria thing utterly baffling.

Precisely. You're being cruel to your child to make him stand out like tat.

On the other hand, the child may want to look special. Neither is good.

@ItsHitTheFanNow
I think you should get in touch with other parents, see how they feel and I'm sure you won't be the only one who's disconcerted by this. Get to the bottom of it. Ask the school why he has been admitted, whether any consultation with parents took place (given that it is a single sex school) and whether they are planning to make any special arrangements re toilet and changing arrangements and at what cost.

BellaAmorosa · 18/01/2023 21:19

princessleah1 · 18/01/2023 19:04

I know a teacher in a single sex girlsstate school onsoith London. They have a trans boy i.e a girl who identifies as a boy. Perhaps they should be asked to leave and go to the boys state school, where they'd not survive for long!

Why should they be asked to leave? They are female. The school is for girls - juvenile human females. The pupil is in the right place and hopefully will benefit from a nurturing environment and the company of others of the same sex.

BellaAmorosa · 18/01/2023 21:32

BreatheAndFocus · 18/01/2023 21:08

I’d try to find out more about the NB person’s sex. Not saying that this is true for your DD but I’ve found a surprising number of teens now judge someone’s sex on their superficial presentation. If this person has taken cross-sex hormones, then they could be female but ostensibly look ‘male’ enough to fool some pupils. In addition, them actually being male would be a more popular topic of conversation and rumour-spreading than the more likely scenario of them being female and NB.

The more I think about this, the more I think this could be the real situation, @ItsHitTheFanNow
Otherwise it's just bizarre.

icanneverthinkofnc · 18/01/2023 21:40

I think I would be taking the line of writing asking the school to 'clear up a matter that is clearly incorrect and the girls have got the wrong end of the stick that one of their classmates is actually a biological boy. Rumours are circulating and need putting to sleep. You know that children do make mistakes, and hopefully, the school can put a stop as it would be embarrassing for the child involved.'
If the girls are wrong, they will put it right. If they then confirm the child is actually male, then it leads to safeguarding and risk assessment territory.

Helleofabore · 18/01/2023 21:58

I would too seek clarification. My teen has a close female friend who is trans. And believes that this friend (15 yr old) is fully passing as a male. All less than 5 ft of them. My teen will not accept that their friend simply will never pass as a male as they look right now.

I would check your daughter’s thinking on this student OP

Original poster
ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 22:02

SkankingWombat · 18/01/2023 18:30

Years ago I worked for a very well known private boy's school. They had one lone female pupil (poor kid). She was the daughter of a member of staff, as staff were allowed to send their DCs at a substantial discount. Thus was the only way a girl could attend. Presumably the perk had to be expanded to allow daughters as well as sons so as not to discriminate? Although why the hell you'd put your daughter through that, I don't know. She always looked so sad and alone. No idea what happened with toilets for her, but even female staff toilets were few and far between there...
Could it be something going on like this OP? (Not that it makes it any better)

Yes, I did wonder if this could be the case too.

OP posts:
Original poster
ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 22:05

Thank you for the link @ArabellaScott.

OP posts:
Original poster
ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 22:07

Riapia · 18/01/2023 19:00

Is this student entitled to wear a non-binary school uniform?

The school uniform includes trousers.

OP posts:
Original poster
ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 22:10

Whatsnewpussyhat · 18/01/2023 19:11

He is not trans
They are non binary

Thought non binary fell under the big trans umbrella?

Non binary is nonsense.
If you're not born it how can you be it if gender is meant to be innate?

If it's not 'trans' then it won't have any protection under gender reassignment will it.

OP is the boy in 6th form, some single sex schools have mixed sex in 6th form?

Not in sixth form.

OP posts:
Original poster
ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 22:22

A previous poster said:

"Most modern schools have single cubicles with sink outside on the main corridor that are mixed sex."

Is this the case? Because this is the same setup at DD's school. In which case, it must be legal?

So separate cubicles for the toilets. But a shared sink outside.

OP posts:
princessleah1 · 18/01/2023 22:24

titchy · 18/01/2023 19:28

You've kind of missed the point there! A trans boy is female so would not be able to go to a boys school. As an aside, many girls schools now have girls who identify as boys - surprised your friend only has one!

Show quote history

The point is the girls stay at the girls school whereas it's the opposite for the boys.

Soontobe60 · 18/01/2023 22:27

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:25

Thank you. DD thinks all the cubicles are fully enclosed but the sinks are outside the cubicles. Does that make a difference?

Show quote history

Do you mean that there is a room off the corridor with an entrance door that contains fully enclosed cubicles, with sinks in the room instead of the cubicles? If so, that’s a regular toilet. As such, it should by law be single sex.

Original poster
ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 22:39

Yes @Soontobe60, I think that's the setup.

Thank you. Do you have a link for this?

OP posts:
NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 19/01/2023 03:24

The current generations (infact most millennials and younger) don't see gender as related to biological to sex.

Yup, as a millennial, I see gender as totally irrelevant. A single-sex school is a single-sex school, and the gender of pupils is immaterial, as long as the pupils are of the sex the school is intended for. Girls, transboys, female non-binaries, maveriques, and agender females can apply to study at a single-sex school, provided they are in the correct age-range.