Complications from trans surgery!

[Ihatedonuts]

I know it's a daily mail article but I can't help thinking. We only ever hear positive stories but the figures tell us this. I really hope the men and woman are getting the support they need from these complications. 🥺

Half of trans surgery patients suffer pain, sexual issues years later mol.im/a/11629421 via dailym.ai/android

What happened to Hippocratic oaths by the way? Do drs not take those any more?

But this is still a nightmare considering that the decision making part of the brain and fully understanding consequences isn’t fully developed until mid twenties.

Words cannot describe some of the horrendous phalloplasties I've seen on various sites. The surgeons should be locked up, not advertising their services.

Flip, my post has been auto-hidden due to a link.

I was explaining that the animation I linked before was a very optimistic outcome where 18 year olds lare concerned. That procedure requires a fully-developed penis, which male children who have been on puberty blockers don't have. The workaround for male teenagers who have been on puberty blockers is the use of bowel tissue. One of the first test subjects for this died. The teenager was 18 years old.

text of abstract

We present a case of an 18-year-old transgender woman, who underwent laparoscopic intestinal vaginoplasty as vaginal reconstruction, and subsequently developed septic shock and multiple organ failure on the basis of an extended-spectrum β-lactamase-producing Escherichia coli. A severe progression of the necrotizing fasciitis was lethal, despite repeated surgical debridement, intravenous antibiotic use, and supportive care at the intensive care unit.

This screenshot of the full text says: Standard penile inversion surgery was not feasible due to penoscrotal hypoplasia, which resulted from previous treatment with puberty suppressing hormones.

What do the trans people who believe your gender is completely separate from your sexed body think about surgery?

Do they view them the same as "transphobes", for believing that e.g. female gender must equal female body?

If anybody has seen the disturbing film by David Cronenberg called Crash, it would seem that the horrific reactions of viewers and critics at the time (over 25 years ago) were misplaced - it was just that we were too naive to understand its 'normality' and 'legitimacy' at the time.

You wouldn’t chop off a healthy leg of someone who has mental health issues and claimed it was broken when it wasn’t.

This did actually happen 20 or so years ago. Everybody was aghast back then; but now, it seems like that's the route that certain people want routine medical procedures to go down.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/625680.stm

One was being shared on Twitter that showed the phallus just below the tummy button.
These poor girls have been so fucked over.

Doctors, nurses, academics, politicians, journalists who try to speak out about are monstered, sacked, doxxed, dragged before their ethics boards.

Places on the internet where it can be discussed are few and far between. MN is an outlier. Twitter cancelled critical voices until very recently. The Guardian won't cover it. That Daily Mail article is full of mistakes and equivocation. Schools are teaching this nonsense to kids. Politicians (cough Kier Starmer cough Stella Creasy cough actually this would be one hell of a coughing fit) claim not to know what a woman is. Tesco (!?) Is, apparently, raising money for binders!

There was a time on MN when posts like this would not be allowed. It has taken posters on the feminism boards years of slowly plugging away and answering questions and being abused by some posters whilst remaining polite but stating facts. This thread will be moved by the morning to that board.

I knew the male to female surgery involved turning the penis inside out, but I had no idea about the colon tissue being used. It it their own colon tissue that's used? The recovery from taking out a chunk of colon would be hard, without the rest of the healing.

I ask because I have a stoma so know what it's like to have intestine removed! If I touch it too hard with a wetwipe it bleeds like mad, is it the same with colon tissue used in that way?! There's also no sensation / feeling in intestine - is that the case for colon tissue used in this way? Are they able to somehow use the penis nerves to give sensation or is the part made from colon not able to feel?

When I was a student nurse I had a placement on a plastics ward. We had a lovely young woman come in for a double mastectomy. It left a very bad taste in my mouth to look after her and be a part of her procedure. She was so young and seemed to be so emotionally immature. Her family were not supportive and she described herself as being someone that just didn't 'fit' and she believed the surgery would change that. Her periods caused her a lot of distress, particularly then as she was on her period when she came for surgery and recoiled at the thought of someone having to remove her tampon for her as she couldn't bend over post surgery. After she had the procedure she became very distressed as it dawned on her that she could never change her mind if she had a change of heart. It was horrendous to watch this frail girl make decisions about herself when she struggled to navigate her own thoughts and feelings let alone anyone elses. I suspect she was on the spectrum as she struggled socially and communicatively. I do sometimes wonder why the healthcare system would put someone like her through such trauma when she barely knew who she was.
She was adamant before surgery that she was going to go abroad to get bottom surgery and after the mastectomy said she didn't know if she wanted to go ahead with that now.
I imagine it is similar for MtF trans people.

Yep. That’s where this will all end.

It’s so strange reading all this “Solve all your problems with surgery” propaganda. I’ve had (necessary!) surgery and I know that it ALWAYS leaves scar tissue and when that’s internal that causes a variety of problems as scar tissue isn’t slippy like the rest of our insides, scar tissue sticks together and grows and oh never mind either you’ll find out or you won’t but it is not fun.

Never get surgery unless you have to is my advice to anyone.

If anyone hasn't already seen this please, please follow the link sign and share

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex?page=1

There are other petitions including one on getting genderwoo out of school. Speak to people, we're not being unkind, this stuff is madness!

What do the trans people who believe your gender is completely separate from your sexed body think about surgery?

It seems to me that, when it suits the TRA argument, sex and gender are two very different things; but when it works in their favour, they're synonyms for exactly the same thing. The accepted term is 'transgender' and not the now 'outdated' term that used to be used; but now, when somebody is transgender - and don't forget that, as we are 'educated', there are potentially hundreds or thousands of gender identities - the goal seems to be to retrospectively change the sex marker on their birth certificate.

I've seen people in favour of the the new GRR bill in Scotland claim that it wouldn't socially affect any existing situations that are the cause of many people's (mainly women's) opposition, as these rights are either separately covered in the equalities act or otherwise have already been captured; but we all know that this is just a way to legitimise and enshrine in law the dissonant 'fact' that gender = sex, except when it doesn't.

You do. But younger children are put on puberty blockers. There is very little research about the consequences of coming off PB but adults who took PB for many years obviously do not have fully developed genitalia etc. There is very little research on what PBs do to the whole body and the brain.

For those who read this article linked to above,
nymag.com/intelligencer/article/gabriel-mac-essay.html
you might want to read this, which raises some troubling questions about the author.

4w.pub/ny-mag-runs-article-by-trans-man-who-previously-staged-own-rape/

But be warned, it's disturbing and anyone who's been a victim of rape may find it very hard to take.

Half in pain and over 40% just left bleeding. Holy god the surgeons need to be struck off. How can this surgery be legal.

It’s why so many trans women don’t have surgery ( which is often the. Held against them because they are still ‘male bodied) and lots of transmen are also listening to the evidence around bottom surgery too.

Their own bowel. I don't know about sensation, but I know that many patients have reported that using intestinal tissue creates a persistent, perceptible odour of faeces. I have noticed that young male transitioners who have real-life transitioning friends who have gone through the bowel surgery are very reluctant to do so too.

So surgeons are now looking at using the skin of the tilapia fish instead. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31837476/

Good.

But why are some trans activists bemoaning so -called conversion therapy and advocating trans health care for kids if this is known to be harmful?

They use the patient's own tissue, I don't know much more. I've heard there's sometimes a 'colon-y' smell, if you catch my drift.

If the patient has been on puberty blockers they'll be anorgasmic. Otherwise I think they rearrange the nerve endings and the prostate to give some sexual function. Maybe it's bravado but I think there are some happy endings.

One of the reasons people seem to be given these surgeries is because they claim they are suicidal living in their natural body. So it will somehow improve their mental health and be 'life saving'. The question I always have is if they are suicidal how can any surgeon accept their consent for the operation without fully going through a psych evaluation and intensive mental health treatment process first?

Processes currently in place just don't seem rigorous enough. How can they be when the information for the 'informed' part of the consent process is so new and lacking. In depth small scale longitudinal studies should have been rigorously undertaken to provide information before widespread uptake. But accepting consent from someone who is suicidal seems particularly highly unethical.

We are also hearing of trans dementia patients forgetting that they have transitioned and experiencing extreme distress and confusion at their missing genitals.

Bear in mind that a male taking 4x the female dose of oestrogen and progesterone for a long period of time is said to be at far higher risk of heart attack, stroke or dementia and we’ve got quite a bad situation building for these people.

Thanks @NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision and @IcakethereforeIam

Is anyone doing any research into or even counting the number of transpeople who die either directly as a result of their surgery (like the case detailed upthread) or indirectly? I'm sure I saw a detransitioner talking desperately about the endless urinary infections resulting from a phalloplasty that could eventually knock her kidneys out. And I may be getting muddled, but I'm sure I've seen an account of someone who nearly died of sepsis. Then there's Tullip, whose surgery went well but is permanently incontinent and has no sensation down below.

twitter.com/tullipr/status/1505137030430441478?lang=en