All 5 Brit nominees for Artist of the year (Gener neutral) are……..

[Timestamp]

Men………Quelle Surprise

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/bizarre/21025033/harry-styles-leads-brit-award-nominations-2023/

We won't be having that conversation for two reasons. One, it won't happen next year. Or the year after that. Or the year after that. Give it about 50 years I reckon. Two, even if there was an all female line up for Best Artist, it doesn't prove that the UK music industry isn't male dominated. In the same way that having had 3 female PMs (well, 2.5 ish) doesn't prove that UK politics isn't male dominated.

At least that's 100% consistent with her other views.

Ok then - so which female artist has had a better year than the 5 nominated?

What are the chances, eh?! 🙄

You do know that the reason many orchestras run ‘blind’ auditions (behind screens) is because they found they were displaying unconscious men-play-better bias?

In our brave new world, there are now calls to remove the screens so the new, progressive, ‘diverse’ audition panels can select by sex and race. Apparently the new discrimination is so much better than the old version.

This matters more for vocalists, because a) most will be very clearly male/female and b) we have a socialised preference for lower pitched voices. (Look how often Adele goes into her lower range.)

Even if we had five male singers and five female singers to shortlist, I’d still be astonished to see an equal division of awards between the sexes. The lower pitched voice preference will bias things towards the men.

RTFT Felix

I have

I was just curious as to which female artist has had a better year than the 5 nominated, in your opinion?

Try again, already answered.

I do know, yes. You do know that starting responses with that phrase is 95% guaranteed to provoke conflict rather than promote interesting or useful dialogue?

I think this move in these awards is a problem (though in my ideal world it wouldn't be a problem, because in that world, men wouldn't have any advantage in a music-making competition, meaning it would be strange and purposeless to split the awards by sex — unfortunately, my fantasy world isn't on the horizon yet). I also believe the impact would be even more profound for acting awards and I hope it doesn't spread to that sector.

The problem is that the whole industry is sexist

So women are shoved out at all levels

We can only say who did well out of those who have been promoted well , and out of those promoted well, society will tend to favor males because they are just assumed to be better

The idea of none neutral categories is to try and move things forward by making sure women get sone exposure and reward

This does things like give girls successful re models and normalises women in the top of the profession which is the only way we know to overdo the centuries of "males must be better because they are male" assumptions

And recognises the women who almost certainly had to work a lot harder to get that level o success

From memory i think she has only had one album this year with no single releases from it.

www.bigissue.com/culture/music/can-the-brit-awards-honestly-say-george-ezra-is-better-than-every-female-musician-in-the-uk/

'Charli XCX was right there. She released the biggest album of her career with nary a skip on it – an 80s-tinged pop masterpiece that felt boundary pushing and commercial in equal measure.'

I'm eye rolling especially hard at everyone calling the Brits out but who also have pronouns in their bio.

Exactly.

We hadn't yet got to a place where there was sufficient equality of opportunity for women before it was decided to do away with male and female categories. Women aren't backed and supported at the same levels in the industry. They need the visibility of a separate category.

Lorraine is an absolute idiot.

IDK why everyone is all of a sudden complaining. You want to erase protections for women, and measures taken to help equity, this is what happens. This is a 'gender' based society operating as intended.

This is 'gender neutral'.

For the record, Charlie XCX has had three singles in the charts this year. Two from her album and one where she is a featured artist.

But, what you're getting at Felix is that women aren't performing as well as the men in this area. Can you expand on why you think that is, and if you think that's reasonable?

JFC the kind of person you'd need to be, to come on a thread where women are talking about being erased, and say it's not that bad/well prove women are worth celebrating. It's contemptible.

“I do know, yes. You do know that starting responses with that phrase is 95% guaranteed to provoke conflict rather than promote interesting or useful dialogue?”

No, actually I don’t. I must be one of the 5%.

To be honest, given that the vocal range for males and females is quite different, I can’t see why splitting awards into male and female is either strange or purposeless. Especially since we can point to vocal bias studies.

I’d also say that the problem in acting is likely to be the coveted ‘Best Actor’ award, because women don’t currently headline as many films as men. When you look at mixed sex awards for lower down the scale, like best newcomer or rising star, the women might be at a slight disadvantage, but they are winning pretty consistently.

unherd.com/thepost/the-brits-go-gender-neutral-and-women-disappear/

Little Simz and Self Esteem are just two female artists I can think of who have had a good year and a genuinely better than George fucking Ezra and Harry coathanger Styles

There is vocal bias. It stems from the fact that powerful men tend to have deeper voices and shout everyone else out. Although weak singing voices is the current trend

So just saying that we are all sexist in our choices so it doesn't matter isn't good enough

Actually my preference tends to be for male and female voices working in harmony

Its just the likes of George Ezra & Harry Styles have had a more successful year. Ezra has had about 5 singles out, a very successful album which did well internationally too and has announced tours. Similar with Styrles

I just don't think Charlie XCX has had a similar successful year in comparison.

Maybe next year it will be the other way around.

Like fuck it will be.

Any chance of actually answering the questions in my post that you quoted?

Ginmonkeyagain
Little Simz and Self Esteem are just two female artists I can think of who have had a good year.

Yes - but not as successful as Ezra & Styles