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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
BearingFalseWitness · 20/01/2023 22:53

The name your parents lovingly chose for you is never your “deadname”. This is dangerous language as it implies that somehow who you were before you changed your name was totally different and now that identity and by extension your family are dead to you.

Some families are abusive but the majority are not and want the best for their child. They will be the people that are still here no matter what, even if teens and young adults want to treat them as an enemy.

Even the language used alienates a child from their loving family.

Moomoola · 21/01/2023 00:18

bearingfalse eloquently put. It's a horrible phrase. So agressive and different to ' change your name'.
DD agreed to see me and seemed happy about it... 2 hours later she has changed her mind. Coincidentally When the partner got back home.
DD seems to think it's a great idea to cut off her mates, cut off school, cut off us and get a crap job. She needs to ' work stuff through for herself.' I'd love to ask her if she's sure that's what she's doing.
Doesn't really sound like it.
Thanks all.

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BearingFalseWitness · 21/01/2023 00:28

Can you tempt her out by doing something she really enjoys?

Moomoola · 21/01/2023 09:11

I thought I had, but as soon as the partner returned I got a text cancelling.

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Moomoola · 21/01/2023 11:04

www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Safeguarding-trans-identified-children-and-adolescents-V1.1-master-1-1.pdf

a very well written leaflet, may be of use to someone. X

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Moomoola · 21/01/2023 11:08

www.lgbtyouth.org.uk/media/2892/tnq-coming-out-e-use.pdf

just for interest. And I think how casually medical transition is mentioned is somewhat erm, well.

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Thelnebriati · 21/01/2023 11:26

I thought I had, but as soon as the partner returned I got a text cancelling.

Isn't that evidence of pressure, which supports your claim she is being coerced or groomed? I think you should talk to a solicitor.

Moomoola · 21/01/2023 11:53

Yes, I think you’re right. Have been looking it up.

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Thelnebriati · 21/01/2023 12:32

Ideally you should be able to talk to the NSPCC, but they've been captured.

BearingFalseWitness · 21/01/2023 19:56

Is it possible to meet other parents through the group for support?

Moomoola · 22/01/2023 00:08

Yes, called the nspcc who suggested I talk to mermaids.
hope so. Could early do with specialised advice on how to deal with the odd text.

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IcakedefargeIam · 22/01/2023 01:06

The NSPCC are still signposting Mermaids!?

It's a war not a battle. Perhaps keep sending her affectionate texts, nothing to do with trans. Stuff that keeps her connected to the family. In jokes, stupid/ funny stuff dad/sibling/pet have done. Should you buy this top, this nail varnish. Not too OTT. Does she have ideas for ? birthday? The daffs coming up in the garden. Just....chat.

Delphinium20 · 22/01/2023 04:13

Moomoola · 21/01/2023 11:08

www.lgbtyouth.org.uk/media/2892/tnq-coming-out-e-use.pdf

just for interest. And I think how casually medical transition is mentioned is somewhat erm, well.

Not once, in this sea of definitions and guidance is "gender" ever defined.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/01/2023 08:54

IcakedefargeIam · Today 01:06
The NSPCC are still signposting Mermaids!?

It's a war not a battle. Perhaps keep sending her affectionate texts, nothing to do with trans. Stuff that keeps her connected to the family. In jokes, stupid/ funny stuff dad/sibling/pet have done. Should you buy this top, this nail varnish. Not too OTT. Does she have ideas for ? birthday? The daffs coming up in the garden. Just....chat.

This is very good advice, I think. This is your treading water to keep afloat and hoping DD will do the same

Then don’t try swimming to shore against the tide (the deadly mother, the deadly girlfriend). Try getting back diagonally bit by bit. ( Keep sending neutral, pleasant messages. Offer little tempting outings. Doing nice things with others that she might think she’s missing out on. But don’t say anything overt about the mother and girlfriend.)

BreatheAndFocus · 22/01/2023 09:16

Moomoola · 21/01/2023 09:11

I thought I had, but as soon as the partner returned I got a text cancelling.

So now you know for sure that’s she’s being pressured and manipulated. It also suggests the partner feels insecure - they’re afraid your DD might see the light and go back to you.

Could you strategically send a text close enough to a meet-up at a time and send the text when you know the partner won’t be there? Make it a brief meet-up, say nothing about gender or her partner or family, keep it very light and friendly.

BreatheAndFocus · 22/01/2023 09:18

Sorry - garbled sentence above. I mean send text and meet-up all in the same period when partner isn’t there.

Moomoola · 22/01/2023 12:02

It’s knowing whe the partner isn’t there!
this is tha last text, I need help with the reply.
I saw a you tube where ‘your gender specialist’ explains how to affirm boundaries which seems to be a very persuasive argument that if you parents haven’t made an effort to call you your new name in 6 months you should affirm boundaries because they are not respecting you, and leave home basically.
it’s very cleverly scripted and convincing.
how do I reply to this? Written after she cancelled sushi because she needs time to work stuff out on her own.
Me ..’ or as this is all way too dramatic and we love you and will support you whatever you decide we can just each sushi and have a laugh.’
reply. ‘ it’s stuff that I need to figure out on my own and I need some space to do that and I’ll come to you when I’m ready but I need u to stop pressuring and I’m just trying to think about boundaries and set them cuz I haven’t been very good at it before.’

do I write back asking what boundaries? Or do I ignore? Or do i say it’s a shame you feel you can’t see us you and we are here or what?
I don’t want the reply to be an excuse for her to be encouraged to cut us off.

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IcakedefargeIam · 22/01/2023 12:08

Text back, okay, let's meet up because we're family. There's more to both of us and our relationship than gender. It'll be the elephant in the room, but we can ignore it, be mother and child, take a holiday from it. Fancy ice cream?

TheClogLady · 22/01/2023 12:12

’i just want to see your face and share some sushi, no pressure! No need to talk about gender at all. Love you, mum xx’

?

I would look up stuff about helping people to get out of Scientology and other similar cultish phenomenons - I vaguely remember a documentary about a woman
whose older teen (?) had run away to join ISIS and she had professional coaching as to how to handle sporadic phone calls home.

can you get your son/your DD’s uncle just to regularly text animal memes or entire emoji conversations? Just to keep contact lines open.

beastlyslumber · 22/01/2023 12:25

"I think it's a great idea to work on boundary-setting in all your relationships - you should never do anything just because someone else is pressuring you. It's something I've struggled with myself at times. What would you think about meeting a family therapist to discuss - would that be of interest? In the meantime, shall we get together for a zero-pressure coffee/walk/sushi lunch - my treat!"

Obviously I'm not in your family so I've no idea how this would be interpreted - I'd text something that sounds natural to you. But the general idea of affirming her right to boundaries, suggestion that this is important skill (and hint that she shouldn't let herself be pressured by anyone), try to find a way to use it to bring you closer and put you on the same side.

beastlyslumber · 22/01/2023 12:29

Maybe that would still be too much 'pressure' - I don't know. I guess the alternative would be to say something like, "Totally understood - we all need space sometimes! Let me know when you fancy catching up. It doesn't have to be anything heavy, I'd love to just see your face. I miss you and love you and I'll be here whenever you're ready to see me."

justgotosleepffs · 22/01/2023 13:51

I agree with what PPs have said, but maybe also add something about how when youre trying to figure things out its a good idea to get advice from lots of different people who know you really well.

It's a shit idea to make life decisions when youre removed from the home and family youve known all your life - but probably best not to phrase it like that!

ScrollingLeaves · 22/01/2023 14:46

Please don’t take this as intended flippantly, but more as a way of seeing the spirit behind apparently disengaging from the gender and coercive mum and girlfriend issue:

In the 1990s a book was written by Monty Robert’s who knew how to get untamed horses to voluntarily come to him in a process called ‘join up’ which you can see on this video 4 minutes in. The thing about it is that it happens when he turns his shoulders and eyes away from the filly (away from confrontation in our language).

Of course just leaving DD to some destructive course is unthinkable, but if only you can hang on to be there for her should she decide to think twice about the captivity she has put herself into, yet appear to be putting her under no pressure at all, perhaps that would help.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=smN9yebcibc

Guardian article about adopting the methods for children,

www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/mar/13/schools.education

Moomoola · 22/01/2023 16:09

Thankyou so much everyone. A lot of great advice, thank you. I need to catch up with ,y self and give this some thought and will get back to you.

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lakeswimmer · 22/01/2023 18:01

OP, so sorrry you're dealing with this. The Gender Dysphoria Support Network helps families and has free online peer support groups. There is a linked organisation Genspect who have loads of support and useful info.

Look for therapists Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayad who offer great information on how families can cope with a child questioning their gender identity. They produce a podcast called the Gender: A Wider Lens and Sasha has a YouTube channel.