Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

[Moomoola]

And it was wise then too bearing! they are told,’yay! I’m special! also think the whole trans thing has to keep young women angry -as a pp said, to stop them questioning the whole trans thing. Maybe, as Bayswater suggested, they could be angry and protest about the companies using them to make money.

redtoothbrush I agree with the others, what a great piece of advice and thank you for taking the time to spell it out so clearly.

So much to think about here! DH didn’t get counselling off NHS, I think because he survived intact so to speak. As you say, clog, he’s a bloke, and doesn’t think he needs it, but yes,his behaviour went more than a bit bonkers. which obviously affected DD.
you’ve summed it up here..
’m still dealing with the psychological after effects of just witnessing her illness and caring for her through it. 
I don’t think society pays much attention to mental health after physical illness until it lands on their doorstep - it certainly took me by surprise, I suppose I vaguely thought I’d be so grateful to get through it all alive
Yup.

this is great advice - The idea that you need to foster her independence away from you guys as parents, so she will eventually feel independent enough to extricate herself from this fucked up codependent relationship, is a good one.
I’ll try! I hope so. Why does this movement hate mums and want to destroy families so much?
of course, now it’s her birthday week, she’s ignoring me.
i think the whole script is designed to create maximum pain for parents.
DH bugged her and Finally she texted,’ I don’t want to talk to you because it makes me feel bad. I’ll be away for a few days for my birthday’.
I guess I reply, ‘ok, have fun and a great birthday love mum’

im thinking of sending a small trans necklace? As a small sign of acceptance and so hopefully it will remind her I exist! Or is that conversion therapy or affirming? And I just send a text? Not in the mood to do much!

can I just say, how wonderful Bayswater is. I’d got confused/mental block but finally had such a useful chat. The ladies I chatted to said what great advice you are all giving - on various threads.
They agreed, that it’s best to be super calm, and ‘oh that’s nice dear’ no fuelling. I’ve told DH it might not seem to be working, but..we can do the placards later.
his emotions are fuelled by the thought of her taking testosterone. I’ve just discovered about microdosing and you can buy a weeks worth for £18 online from high st chemist with a made up doctors address.even if I type ‘I want to be a man’ into reasons. Wtaf? Writing them a blooming letter, we’ll see how that goes!

sorry for the ramble.

[Moomoola]

https://realitygirlzine.substack.com/p/the-zine

may be useful for someone!

[ScrollingLeaves]

Moomoola · Today 12:49
https://realitygirlzine.substack.com/p/the-zine

That is excellent, Moomola.

[Delphinium20]

Moo, when I was just a bit older than your DD, I had several years of fallout with my mother. I was awful. She was awful. But, we eventually completely repaired our relationship and all was excellent until her death when I was around 40.

What hurt me a great deal during that time is I hit my milestone birthday and my parents ignored it. My little sister snuck a present to me by stealth, having used her babysitting $ to pay for it.

Talking now with my sister (we are both middle aged) this episode really hurt her. She saw her family falling apart and was terrified. Do what you can to acknowledge her bday even if she says she doesn't want to see you or DH. Deep down, I really wanted my mother and father to get me a little recognition-even a small gift and a small cake with my sisters would have meant the world to me. I just didn't have the bravery that tell them I missed them.

[Moomoola]

Aww delphinium I’m sorry. It’s so hard to know as an adult, what will hurt your kids feelings.
i know if I was DD I’d secretly, like you, want some sort of acknowledgment. So I will post something.
i guess I’ll forward any cards that arrive here too.
scrholling it’s good isn’t it? Talented lady!

[dunBle]

Don't send her a trans necklace, as it's the sort of gesture that can easily be twisted by those wanting to make you look bad. Perhaps if there's a bakery near you/her that does gift cards, you could send her one in the post, with a message along the lines of "it wasn't really practical to post you a birthday cake, so you can treat yourself to one from here instead" ?

[MovinGroovinBarbie]

Let them live together as men. It'll all fall apart when somebody has to do the housework.

[Jellycats4life]

Personally I wouldn’t be able to buy a trans necklace. I just couldn’t. A necklace, sure, but not a “trans” one.

[BreadInCaptivity]

@Jellycats4life

Personally I wouldn’t be able to buy a trans necklace. I just couldn’t. A necklace, sure, but not a “trans” one.

Agree.

Nothing that buys into the ideology.

A lovely necklace yes.

Or better still a charm bracelet sent with charms that reflect your love for her and the expectation she can add others to personalise it to reflect her identity.

[HagoftheNorth]

Bread that’s a lovely idea, includes her childhood, and recognises her future is her choice ❤️

[Faffertea]

Bread’s idea is great for a gift.

I don’t know if it’s the right thing to do or not but I would text her on her birthday and say something along the lines of:
”Happy birthday dd. I/we hope you have a wonderful day. I/we would have loved to celebrate with you but appreciate things are difficult between us at the moment.” I’d then put in something about you will be remembering the first time you held her or other significant memory from the day she was born and that you will always love her. I’d then say you have sent her a gift, you hope she likes it and hope to be able to see her soon.

As you said Moo trans ideology has a real contempt for mothers (maybe because we are the ones to protect our children and see through this?) so I would be gently reminding her in the text that you were there from the very beginning of her life and always will be.

[Redbird87]

I'd be careful about jewelry, you don't want it to be misconstrued as "forcing her to be feminine" or whatever. If the gf is already twisting your words, this would definitely give her ammunition, and be lorded over your head as proof of being passive-aggressive and manipulative. And yes, we all know that men can wear whatever jewelry they want, and it's ok when nb dudes do it, but when there's already a frantic scrape for evidence of your wrongdoing, I'd doubt it would be taken as a good faith token. That's how they turn things, you see it in arguments a lot too-- "Ok, you said this completely reasonable thing, TOO BAD IT WAS IN BAD FAITH"

[Moomoola]

Thank you so much! I actually can’t face buying a trans necklace. Sickened by the monetising of this. As an aside, I Stumbkedacross ‘Grampian pride’ that arrange (one a month) pride marches. The Logo is ‘just be yourself’ and surprisingly you can buy lots of lovely merch. Someone somewhere is making a LOT of money
dunble great idea! And surely can’t be misconstrued.
movingroovinbarbei 😂😂😂😂
Isn’t it ridiculous, but I think as redbird87 says, even bread, your lovely idea of a charm bracelet will probably be used against me.
DH just wants to send a text, but I think I’ll get a moonpig card with photos of her absolutely loathsome childhood and a loving message. I think acknowledging , like faffertea you suggest, that things are difficult at the moment sounds sensible too.
thank you. It’s ridiculous when even a celebration involves eggeshells and asking for advice. I’m just so nervous that she is swallowing the go no contact crap. There’s so many heartbreaking tales on the PITT su stack.It’s been done so slowly and carefully and she will probably think she’s thought of it herself.
thank you

[MumOfYoungTransAdult]

Given how things are with your DD, I wouldn't get anything at all political or message-y as a gift or card. And it's tricky to include anything that harks back to DD's childhood and herself as a girl. She might not want to see herself at all -I wouldn't have done at that age. Then again if you use pictures that don't include her she could see that as erasing her from the family. So if you use photos maybe also include a photo of her as she is now, if you have one? Though I'd probably just choose a fancy gender neutral card, loving or arty or joky.

Is there something practical and gender neutral or even a bit boyish that you can get for DD as a present? Something to do with a hobby or college or work, maybe a smartwatch (probably too expensive if you're not wanting to get a big present), the modern equivalent of the Posh Fountain Pen that kids used to get?

It’s ridiculous when even a celebration involves eggshells and asking for advice.
 
It is walking on eggshells when we are trying to avoid estrangement. 💐

[Moomoola]

Thanks so much mum. Its ridiculous isnt it.
An uncontreversial card it is then, good point.
And a token for a cake. Maybe. I dont think she deserves a big present, and it would be used against us somehow, or sold.
Reading detrans on reddit. its SO heartbreaking. Those poor kids.

[Redbird87]

@Moomoola I know it's really heartbreaking, but you're doing the best you can. When I went through this, which started before I even knew about ftm, being gnc was a sore spot for my mom and she forced me to be more feminine, convinced I was a lesbian. "What are you, a lesbian???" She was unbearable after I, in the heat of an argument, told her I was bi, and it became the awful thing in the room we never talked about but knew was there. I lived my life separate from them for a long time, starting at your DD's age or a little younger, and my mom never tried to understand, never apologized, and was always so passive-aggressive and confusing, going from hot and cold, and that made it harder to self-reflect. What I was, and what I was to avoid acquiescing became the same.-You're right, DD doesn't deserve a big present, and she knows that. If you give her one, it'll be misconstrued as gaslighting or trying to buy her love, or worse, trying to guilt her with childhood memories. Those things are verboten now, they don't exist until she brings them up. It's part of the intentional separation from her old, "dead" self. You're going to either be a frigid transphobe disowning her if you forgo acknowledging it, or trying to pull a guilt trip if you do. There's no winning, and that really sucks and I'm so sorry for you. But again, you're doing your best, especially with all the pressure from DH, trying to keep DS positive and given proper attention, and the isolation and probably anxiety from not working. -There's so many wise women in this thread, wish they'd all be in the same room irl so we could pick their brains for advice lol. As for my own pithy wisdom, I'd recommend sending a Moomin card. It's cute but not gendered, it's very in with the twee zoomer crowd (my heart breaks!), and one of the characters resonates with ftm people bc he's a sassy little butthole. And if that's not what you end up sending, have these anyway, bc Moomin always makes me feel better when I'm down <3

[Tallisker]

Oh that first Moomin card! I love the Moomins. 💕

[HagoftheNorth]

Good advice from Red and mum and good idea from dunBle about the cake. Bread - your good idea isn’t wasted, I’m going to use it 😀thankyou!

[MumOfYoungTransAdult]

Oh, I am a huge Moomin fan @Redbird87 ! Glad to known they're back "in" as DC's birthday is coming up. Moonpig has some lovely ones.

[DodoPatrol]

Maybe you could find just one utterly gender-neutral and possibly chocolate-coated image from her early childhood (unless she used to be a pink-with-everything sort of a child).

[TheClogLady]

You can always edit colour photos to black and white , that gets rid of any pink/blue issues (not much help if it’s a tutu and fairy wings, then you’d have to go for the artfully-close-crop!)

[TheClogLady]

I’m also a fan of the Moomins (but prefer Barbapapa!)

[Moomoola]

Oh you lovely lot! redbird thank you for your post. I’m so sorry your mum struggled - for you and your mum. X
and the moo ins made me laugh! Wasting time googling them now! I found their big squishy bodies terrifying as a child😀
so now I’ve got black and white moo in card with gender neutral DD s photo dropped in! And my sense of humour back. Thanks all.
redbird you are right about work, I’m grinding to a halt here. And definitely need to stop researching trans stuff.

[Moomoola]

Ps I’m glad you’re using breads lovely idea, hag!
my dad got me one for my 18th. I love it, even tho it came with wedding charms on. Rather think it fell off the back of a lorry. Typical dad. Mine anyway!😀

[BreadInCaptivity]

@HagoftheNorth

Good advice from Red and mum and good idea from dunBle about the cake. Bread - your good idea isn’t wasted, I’m going to use it 😀thankyou!

You are very welcome.

Just to add you can get charm bracelets that aren't particularly "girly" - even Pandora do a leather one that's arguably unisex.

Pandora is a bit of a rip off but they have a massive number of different charms, so lots of potential to find something meaningful without being controversial.