Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

What is wrong with your husband? He didn't have to cry off at all. He chose to cry off. He chose to let his DD down. He chose to let you down. He chose to prioritise all that work. Any other father would have said "fuck it DD needs me more and so does DW". What would it take to make him put his work aside for a day?

This. After pushing you and harassing you to contact DD and give up your job etc etc, he is given a chance to connect with her and he decides he doesn't want to do that.

I think maybe your DD is very hurt that she is clearly not the priority. Maybe the best thing would be to apologise to her that DH cancelled and let her know that you are upset about letting her down. Don't mention her cancelling on you. Just be sorry that you let her down and ask when she is free so that you can arrange something else.

Maybe if DD feels you are moving on with your lives that will get her attention?
At the moment , you are always ready to receive what ever she has to offer ( even if it rubbish)
Maybe show her you are putting yourself and her brother first for a change and see if that causes her to pay more attention?
We often take for granted the people who love us the most and are always there for us.
We assume they will be there forever.
Sorry, I know it must be so hard and easy for others to give suggestions but you must be breaking into pieces every single time.

I'm so sorry @Moomoola

I agree that your husband is under stress but he should have found one hour to go with DD, even if he had to leave early or stay only a short time. He was wrong to not prioritize and juggle his time.

Please text your DD back. Tell her how sad you are to miss the event and how you miss her and just want to see her.

Is it any wonder your DD doesn't want to be a woman when she sees all you have have had to sacrifice as the female head of the house.

She may not conciously see it herself but the message loud and clear here is that the man's priorities are whatever he chooses, and all else comes secondary, and women in his life come last/don't even feature. That a man's opinions are to be obeyed and unquestioned and that everyone just needs to listen to him tell them how they should live.

I know you love him and I know you see his good points but the majority of what you've said shows a man who is unsupportive, unhelpful and puts it all on you.

Thanks. Sorry, but just need to have a think!
DH hugely relieved, his presentation to the ( the main board, it’s a massive company ) was ok.phew!
he could have spared an hour to see dd, but it would have been longer than an hour. , then his brain would be full of DD, and he wouldn’t be concentrating on the very technical,presentation to some serious chaps, so I think he was right. He has now kept his boss on side and he is now all keen to spend time with dd and texted her as soon as he could. I called her, but we both got zilch. I’m wondering if it’s because I called after 4 pm when x might be there. Who knows.
i will cogitate and report back tomorrow. DH has his failings, but he also has his plus points. And if I look at me, from his pov.. well!

DarkChocHolic· Today 15:36
Maybe if DD feels you are moving on with your lives that will get her attention?
At the moment , you are always ready to receive what ever she has to offer ( even if it rubbish)
Maybe show her you are putting yourself and her brother first for a change and see if that causes her to pay more attention?
We often take for granted the people who love us the most and are always there for us.
We assume they will be there forever.
Sorry, I know it must be so hard and easy for others to give suggestions but you must be breaking into pieces every single time.

This is good advice. Appear to be interested in her, but moving on with and enjoying your own lives more.

Fwiw I think your husband had a presentation and needed to focus on that.

I agree that at 17 you fussing over her will just make her feel she is in control and make her be more likely to feel she can have everyone running round after her. Mentally think of her as having gone away to university and start planning life without her at its centre.
Start thinking about what you want to do with your life and doing stuff with your son (if he wants) and concentrate on the things you can control not the things you can't.
If your happiness is dependant on someone else's actions you will never be happy.

Sorry, no.

She came second. She wasn't as important as his job. He told her that loud and clear. Shouted it from the rooftops. She was less important than his job.

Yes, as adults in the adult world with adult responsibilities we understand. But she's not (quite) an adult so she doesn't see the bigger picture, that dad's been amazing st work. She just sees that she is less important to her dad than some random guys.

Personally I think everyone saying he put his job before his child is being ridiculous, he still has to help support a family and pay bills. When you have a demanding task at work that is essential, you sometimes have to make personal sacrifices. It’s crazy to think she can come and go and leave her parents hanging constantly but the one time her dad has to do some extra work he gets blamed.

Things happen, sometimes we can’t do everything. The whole world can’t stop because one child is refusing to take part in family life in a way they can plan for.

I think this is very unfair to blame the parents when they have been treading on eggshells trying not to upset their daughter. It’s not realistic to think the rest of your life and your responsibilities can be shelved for one person in the family who isn’t being cooperative.

Parents in the situation still need positive feedback from other areas of their lives so they don’t feel that nothing they do matters, it can be very hard to keep on track and be successful in the middle of something like this. I just don’t think it’s fair, teens have to understand that the world cannot revolve around them all the time.

Personally I think everyone saying he put his job before his child is being ridiculous, he still has to help support a family and pay bills

in the normal course of events? for sure, i had this when my DC were small, sometimes my job came first and DH was in charge of home/kids. Sometimes his came first and i was in charge of home/kids (as well as our jobs generally). Sometimes the DCs had to be the priority and luckily jobs didn't suffer.

But this DH? He has literally forced (emotionally manipulative) OP to give up her job to make their DC priority. But the first time he is in any position to do that? BAM! job first. So no. He doesn't get a free pass. He must - as i did when my DC tried to kill herself - tell his work that for a few weeks at least his home-life comes first.

As some of us said previously: If DH can't handle it, he needs to change his job, and OP needs, for her own MH if nothing else, to find another job, and can increase hours as necessary to make up a gap in income. They will both then have the safety-valve of a job (ie away from family drama) and more time for their family, including, let's not forget, a DS still living at home.

(FWIW: my employer immediately took pressure off me, and when it later transpired I'd need to do more support at home, helped me downsize my job without making a big fuss about it)

You are going through such a tough time and I think you're being an amazing mum to your dd.

Can you get the kittens as a project with your ds? That way it might give you both something to focus on.

Fwiw you sound like you might have depression.... Hope you're OK xxxxx

This feels really unfair - blaming the parents for dd deciding she is trans when billions of children grow up in abusive situations and don't suddenly decide they are the opposite sex.

Definitely this.
Try and catch a breath to do some grounding things for yourself.

Thank you! jelly and womble I feel like an utter failure. As a mum and In life. I’m doubting everything I’ve ever done. DH tells me we’ve done nothing wrong, we did our best, but we obviously have.
scrolling and 2 Rebecca and bearing yes, you are right, I need to create a new life. And yes, we have been on eggshells and yes DH needs to keep the money coming in - it’s what is grounding him. Though obv it would be nice if it wasn’t so challenging.

we’d arranged to see her today. We got a text saying great! Let’s go to the pictures or lunch or something. DH took a day off.
later we got a text cancelling. She’s not ready to explain it all again, she doesn’t like feeling stressed she’ll see us after she’s been to see my brother. Is that her? Is it x saying We’d be cross ( x has said that before, which made DD nervous to see me)
which is how I found out they are going to see my brother at the weekend. he lives abroad in what I think of as my family home ( mums house) I love it there and I’m sure she thinks it’s just a convenient place to stay while they see if they can get summer jobs.
It’s my special place and has triggered all my grief for mum. compounded by grief for DD. I’m all over the place.

I’m amazed at my reaction. Brother being laid back, but why didn’t he tell me? Feel very kicked in the gut.
DH says I should pop over there too. Should I?
im like a rabbit in the headlights.
DH suggests posh Easter holiday as a treat ( and I think he’s hoping to entice DD. He won’t though).
He’s suggesting Italy, I’ve no idea how/ where. I’m like a rabbit in the headlights.don’t want it to be us 3 traipsing round. I was tempted to go see brother, he can help entertain DS.but it’s very quiet there and too early to swim. Now, I am so confused.
i need somewhere nice, and cheap, for a 15 yr old, so we are not all thinking of DD.
thank you everyone.

I can’t compete DD is obv enjoying her new life. She has gone to the city, ( saw my brother) been for a night in a hotel, is off to see brother. Meanwhile today I’m a wreck. At least it’s my brother.
can I call her later and say how difficult it is to be kept on tenterhooks?
how can I see her without x being in the background?
thanks. Sorry needy mum here.

Is that her? Is it x saying We’d be cross ( x has said that before, which made DD nervous to see me)

Who knows? It could be anything - it could be her friend, or DD could be punishing her father for bailing on her, or she could be feeling guilty about upsetting you/DH and reframing that as you being angry with her. Or she could just be a casual selfish teen who has something else to do that day and making excuses.

I’m sure she thinks it’s just a convenient place to stay while they see if they can get summer jobs.

Surely it means something to her too? It's her uncle's house and it was her grandmother's house. Is it painful that she wants to share your special space and hers with her friend?

DH says I should pop over there too. Should I?

What's the benefit? Will it achieve anything except to cause you more distress?

Could you visit your family house when DD isn't there, just to connect with bro and with your own memories? Or maybe take DS. You and bro could spend some time together and some time with DS, some calm relaxed time, even if it's too early to swim.

As for the family holiday, I wouldn't worry too much about DS being entertained. Yes it's only fair that there should be something he'll enjoy but if he's got his gadgets and wifi, he'll be fine.

I can’t compete DD is obv enjoying her new life.

It's not a competition. It's healthy for DD to be out having fun. Way better than sitting at home with her friend obsessing about their gender identities and jerking you and her father around. It sounds as if your brother's a good influence on DD and a good family connection for DD, less loaded than her relationship with you and DH.

You're doing amazingly well at such a difficult time, honestly!

It's harsh, but I don't think it's unfair.

I think that the OP is doing an excellent job here.

But she's also getting no support -practical or otherwise, from her husband. She's bent over backwards to try to do everything she can in this very difficult situation and grieving her mum, is sick with worry over her DD, and he's too busy to help, prioritises work by default, has forced the OP to give up work to deal with this, all the while disagreeing with how she is handling this and avoiding his own DD because of his own shortcomings.

He's only a hindrance and a liability in all of this. But still thinks he's the expert who can mansplain and argue with his wife and his DD on a situation he knows fuck all about. He's showing exactly why in their world, being a bloke is preferable and being a woman or girl is the pits. Why, if he was so adamant that DD needed a full time SAHP, and the OP clearly adored her job, that he didn't offer to be that person? He didn't because he never saw it as his responsibility. He still doesn't.

can I call her later and say how difficult it is to be kept on tenterhooks?
how can I see her without x being in the background?
thanks. Sorry needy mum here.

I think maybe you should avoid saying that, as much as it is true. Just remember that as long as she keeps you at arm’s length, she can convince herself that you are the bad guy. If she actually sees you and speaks to you, that facade might crumble, and she doesn’t want that. She needs you to be the bad guy. This is how cults work. Trans and queer social media is awash with young people painting their parents as evil people who refuse to accept their new identity.

Look at Jeffrey Marsh. Tiktok has exploded with people finally calling him out for his videos, a huge proportion of which try to persuade young people to go no contact with their parents.

Here are just two examples (I’m linking to Twitter because it’s more accessible than Tiktok - so pay no mind to the fact I’m linking to Oli London, who is an… interesting character):

twitter.com/unhealthytruth/status/1631504097089126400?s=46&t=lcIjyf-T8Zq2cPm1YxSFcw

twitter.com/olilondontv/status/1632693577514995712?s=46&t=lcIjyf-T8Zq2cPm1YxSFcw

I pretty much agree with everything @MumOfYoungTransAdult says and agree with @Jellycats4life that telling her anything like that is unlikely to help.

Just keep with the light texting and ask your DH to do the same. He’s the one she seems to back away from, so he’s the one who need to work on that relationship - you can’t do it on their behalves, no matter how much you’d like to. It’s not a 3rd party job.

Hopefully your brother will be able to report back with a fuller picture of how your DD is and how she and X are together - I reckon it’s probably a good thing if they spend the summer outside of X’s mum & dad’s home and with your brother instead. They’ll probably find it even harder to sustain any additional identity/pronoun stuff in a foreign country (especially if they have to speak a different language?)

Totally agree that of course you must see your family home this year, it’s exactly where I’d want to be in your circumstances, but don’t chase DD down there, go when YOU want to go and take DS too. Perhaps towards the end of the summer if DD does end up working there for a few months (although that might not be that easy, especially not for X, unless it’s Ireland? Brexit has made it much harder to pick up casual summer jobs)

This isn’t just a woman-hating ideology, it’s specifically a mother-hating ideology 😢

I’d put a wager on that there they/them being arrested for something pretty serious within the next three years tops.

agree with the others, OP, keep up the loose contact you have. Text (WhatsApp - however you usually do it) as often as you have been. Make a suggestion to meet up to make up for missing the film/event/last meet up and then wait. Let your DC do the running for the actual meetings, and in yourself bear always in mind that nothing you write is private, nothing you say is private and everything that comes back to you is filtered through your DCs friend/family.

Don't let yourself get set up for disappointment. Made arrangements to see a film? take DS or go alone. Made arrangements to meet for coffee? go for coffee. Carry on doing regular things, but don't make elaborate arrangements.

Your DH needs to be on board. He isn't. Ignore him. Take him out of the equation and re-establish your relationship (with both DCs tbh). Your DHs relationship with his DCs is his business.

How is your DS getting on? Does he have contact with his sibling (don't pry into this, if they do)

I also think it would be good for you to do something healing just for yourself. Not for DD, not for DH, not even for DS. Because you sound really drained. Whether what feels heling is a trip to visit your brother or a luxury holiday with DH or something quite different. It doesn't have to be with anyone else from the family, only if the thought lifts your heart. Something just for you.

You know what they say, put your own lifejacket on first.

Thanks everyone. I read your lovely pots a while back, but you are right mum feeling a bit drained!
as always, thanks for the amazing advice.
mum youve helped me realise a visit with brother - later! - would be a good idea, to bond again. I’d like it anyway, and I’m a bit lacking in confidence to book somewhere unknown at the mo. Leaving her x and bro to it. It’s good she has a naughty uncle who is v caring.
Thanks itsa the job thing is a problem. Obv DH earns way more than me. He does tend to bat stuff he can’t handle on to me. He is coming round to the ‘we can only offer love’ idea and was very supportive when I was super upset. He is saying we’llfocus on us three. He’s still having difficulty getting over the hurt.

jellycat thankyou for the links. What an unutterable creep. And worse is he’s very clever and very persuasive. The second film where he says,’if you’re parents are shocked, leave, but if they are totally accepting and say,‘I’ll work on myself too’ is evilly clever - I’ll watch it as a mum and think,’oooh I’d better do that then!’nasty.

I’ll send them to brother. He ( and I) keep thinking of this as a ‘DD wanting an adventure’ DH reminds me, it’s not just that- there is a definite mother hating ideology going on. You’re right clog.
Thanks clog and brefugee no she doesn’t contact him at all. She’s basically cut herself off apart from the odd text to me ( which I initiate) and brother. As DH says, x hasn’t given up anything.
fxxing Jeffry marsh.

Linked in this thread title below (posted today) is an extraordinarily powerful speech from a transman. I wondered if you had seen it?

I defy anyone to listen and not take heed. I realise you cannot possibly send it to your dd without risking your delicate relationship with her, but I don’t know if your brother possibly could get her to see it with him at some point in the future?

Transman Scott Newgent delivers powerful speech

Thank you scrolling that's very powerful indeed.
I'll forward it to brother.
Have to focus on my self as am feeling v wierdy at DD and X being in my mum's house where bro now lives. Desperately want to see bro.
DH talking about booking London and Eurostar to Paris for Easter, but can't tell me how much time he can take off. ,🙄So tempted just to see bro with DS. But DH needs a break too.
Just can't have another school holiday where we go nowhere.