Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

I have absolutely no advice - just wanted to say well done @Moomoola !

@TheClogLady about leaving home - one of the things the family therapist did for me and my family was to help me leave home at 19 in a good way. It really helped me grow up and I had so much fun and learnt so much - earning my living, sharing a shabby flat with other girls, cooking and cleaning and Saturday afternoons at the launderette, seeing my boyfriend whenever, staying out in the evenings and enjoying our independence - and visiting my parents every couple of weeks and getting taken out for dinner by my Dad too. Rent was much cheaper in those days so I still had spare cash but even without it would have been worth it. So don't feel too put out, it just sounds as if your DS has grown up feeling secure and confident!

That’s lovely mum
it IS fun leaving home. Maybe I’m a bit jealous. I want to travel and have adventures!

Moomoola · Today 22:08

That’s lovely mum
it IS fun leaving home. Maybe I’m a bit jealous. I want to travel and have adventures!

Moomoola, have you thought of a small adventure for you, DH and DS even for a few days? You have had so much stress.

You could tell DD she is welcome, but realise she may not want to come.

That’s a brilliant idea scrolling. Especially for DS who had a rubbish Xmas and a very dull half term poor chap.

I second the brilliant advice you've had re going to the coffee outing, OP. Realise that if you go and treat X with warm curiosity (like any DC's new partner), interest and kindness, you're building up your own defence and kudos. You're also doing your DD a favour, by giving her a nice time, and rekindling those nice mother-daughter time feelings. That can only do her good. Try not to focus on the gender identity issues when you go (naturally they're at the forefront of your mind!), but do as PPs have suggested, and demonstrate the other parts of your well rounded personality: generosity, interest, chatting about different topics, tolerance, etc. Focus on the other things, just for this event. They're real, too.

Thank you tattygrl
Had a nice jokey text with her today! Soo pleased.
thanks everyone I’m hoping to build on the jokey texts.

This is really positive news!! I'm so happy for you and DD!

Great news moomoola

Marvellous! Just keep going!
Find a positive, funny or wry phrase to repeat inside your head when your patience is straining, I tend to go for things like

‘I love you, you love me, we are not sworn enemies, the teenage years are just bobbins’

😬

I find old family photos are always a winner for a fun text conversation that give a little bonding-boost…
You and your DH’s teen fashion mistakes, your brother (being the cool uncle), granny and grandad in their own heyday… see if you can find some photos of you all around the same sort of age as your 2 DC are now.
DS and DD might even get a bonding opportunity- nothing like laughing at your ‘rents to bring a sibling pair together.

Don’t offer up any of your DC’s childhood pics tho (too heavy handed, like you are trying to remind her of being a little girl) but I bet she’ll ask for some once her interest is piqued - see if you can find any that look a bit gender neutral clothes-wise (or edit them to black and white images in your phone photo app, if there is too much Barbie pink!*
The aim is to help her reconcile her new teen self with her younger self in a happy and healthy way, so don’t give her anything to push back hard against.

Assuming we are a similar sort of age, if your childhood photos are anything like mine, they will feature brown and orange corduroy and identical bowl cuts for boys and girls 😅

*I didn’t know my DstepD in person until she was 8 but her dad and I had been connected for three years prior so I’d known her via his photos and stories since she was about 5. She was never particularly GNC - far more of a girly girl than my other daughter. It’s a real struggle to find a childhood photo of her that doesn’t feature a frilly dress or a pair of heart shaped sunglasses!
I think that’s one of the things I’ve found weirdest about the ROGD thing - the one transman I had known in childhood was the most extreme tomboy imaginable, and the couple of adult transmen I met over the next 30 years or so both told a similar backstory of being GNC from toddlerhood.
Whereas my stepdaughter showed no interest in masculine clothes, hairstyles or hobbies. Looking back, the earliest ROGD signs were telling us she was bisexual at 12 (and joining the school’s LGBT lunchtime club) being a bit socially awkward with peers (and then being bullied by classmates for coming out as same sex attracted) and having an interest in anime 😬

‘I love you, you love me, we are not sworn enemies, the teenage years are just bobbins’
😄😄😄😄😄😄that did make me laugh!
photos are a great idea, she’s expressed an interest in the brown corduroy times! And yes, it was the same clothes as your brother - snake belts! Plimsoles! Flares! I am that old. And everyone was a Tom boy or they read Jackie. Simple times!
gosh, well done for being such a great step mum, very hard.
funny, I don’t ( didn’t) know any trans men. I’ve met one trans woman and one drag queen in my entire life ( that I know of!)Loads of gay people. It just didn’t seem to be a thing.
And I went to art college and had a louche upbringing. Mwa ha ha!
i do think everything is a bit forced nowadays. Dr who has token gay side stories. What’s that all about, we want adventure!

Hi, I haven't read everything and I'm glad you've built a bridge together but just a word of warning if it applies to you - photos that included my child were not wanted. Whether that was because it was showing the birth 'gender' or they just didn't like looking at themselves...both I suppose. So photos may be fun but be careful they don't look like 'hey, remember when you were this girl!' Hope you continue to have lovely gentle texts! X

Thanks for the warning! I think I’ll stick to young pics of granny etc. they are fascinating. Shame no one kept diaries.

Hello again! Sorry, need you guys again!
It’s not really a feminist question but..
DD said she’d see us all on Sunday. Then Dad had to cry off - massive amount of work for Monday.
DD said she’d join me in going to a rare class in a hobby we both like instead! Excited! Me and Dh feel we are making progress! and then …cancelled. She just didn’t want to.
suddenly it just seemed too much effort to go on my own, so I’ve lost the money. I thought to invite her to something else instead…and just couldn’t do it. Just didn’t want to sit in a cafe being jolly.
so I haven’t texted since she cancelled. Cba. Don’t know what to say.
Im tired of all the emotion, the ooh, we are making progress, and then feeling dumped. I’m squashing being cross, so I don’t know what I feel.

I want to say to DD,’ this isn’t healthy! You should be able to feel that you can come into your own home. Even if it’s to get your shoes! Yous should be able to sort stuff out with us. You should, possibly, be able to see me without texting x continually.

don’t tie yourself up so closely to someone, you’re only 17, you should be out with lots of mates experiencing the world.
why give up school now? You’ve only got a few months and may as well sit the exams.
don’t owe anyone money, especially not a partner.
and most importantly,
‘don’t be such a dick.’

I don’t want to keep chasing her.
im losing confidence and spiralling down.
she still hasn’t been home once. Her clothes etc are now off the floor and in a cupboard and we’ve given her room a lick of paint, it was so skanky.

beginning to make inroads into decorating the house and making it cosier.
decluttering old toys and potential dreams is breaking my heart.
I think I’m grieving the loss of her and my mum, and the loss of how I thought we’d progress - driving lessons, helping to go to college etc.
there just doesn’t seem to be any positives or achievements or anything to look forward to. Just grey skies and dirty kitchen.
why would she prefer to be in someone else’s mums flat? Dd is giving up on her dad, her brother..me.. x is all cozy with her mum and DD. She’s not giving up anything.
Sorry, really struggling. I miss my mum and being happy so much.

Oh, I am so sorry. That is grief and disappointment. It drains our energy and our will to "do" things. It's surely going to be two steps forward, one step back, or even one step forward, one step back... and that is so hard

Then Dad had to cry off - massive amount of work for Monday.

What is wrong with your husband? He didn't have to cry off at all. He chose to cry off. He chose to let his DD down. He chose to let you down. He chose to prioritise all that work. Any other father would have said "fuck it DD needs me more and so does DW". What would it take to make him put his work aside for a day?

And could there be a connection between DH dropping DD, and DD dropping the class? You are making progress but DH is undermining it. You are not a substitute for DH, he needs to find his courage and fight his own battles. They have a relationship and you can't fix it for them.

and most importantly,
‘don’t be such a dick.’

DD is not the one who most urgently needs to hear those words.

why would she prefer to be in someone else’s mums flat? Dd is giving up on her dad,

Well yes, he gave up on her first.

And aren't you grieving for the brave supportive caring loving husband you hoped for as well? Find your anger.

What she said ⬆️

I can't believe your so-called 'D'H would let his only daughter down like this at such a fraught time. He has just confirmed to her that she doesn't matter. No wonder she's looking elsewhere for a family.

I'm so sorry for you, you're working so hard on this, but your dick of a DH undoes everything you do by behaving like a dick.

I'm so angry on your behalf. You need to be going ballistic on him.

Your poor son as well, learning every day that something else is always more important to his dad than family.

oh OP it all sounds so stressful.

So you need to have words with your DH about how it made you feel under pressure that he made an excuse not to see your DC. How that is the opposite of all the fuss and bother he has been creating over months and that he has let you down badly. You GAVE UP YOUR JOB and he? has done zip apart from moan around and cause you stress.
You really need to tell him, clearly, calmly and for the last time.
After this he is responsible for his relationship with your DC (both of them) and you are not going to attempt to facilitate that

(and please please get a job, something just for you)

It's a shame that you felt you couldn't go to the activity, this kind of apathy could be depression or grief. But it is a shame you missed out.

For future meetings I'd suggest something that you can do alone if you want and that you won't lose money on. If you can get something regular going that would be good, and when you have re-established a relationship with your DC, you can try other things.

How is your DC that still lives at home? How are they coping?

Maybe it’s ok to feel pissed off and manipulated and just cant be arsed. Maybe this is the time for you to think about you and your needs. Is this the time your daughter needs you most? Maybe she’s saying I need to figure things out, give me some space. Maybe your needs and wishes are just as important as anyone else’s. While your daughters partner and mother are sheltering a refugee from transphobes, they will be giving her so much reinforcement, and every attempt to make contact , or improve things feeds that. I honestly believe, as someone who has had similar happen that it’s time for you to think long and hard about what you want , and what needs to change for you to achieve it.

So sorry Moomoola. It does seem as if you have a DH problem. He persuaded you to give up your work in order to prioritise your DD yet the first time he has the opportunity to prioritise her, he bails. Only you can know whether that's the message he consistently sends to his children and if it is, what your response to his behaviour should be?

As a PP has said, you do need something for yourself. Putting your life on hold to comply with your DH's demands isn't working. How's your son doing?

thanks so much!
thankyou mum and tallisker yourse so wise!
it helps to have emotions labelled, now I can be understanding and gentle with myself. Was very scared that I was getting depressed.

To be fair to Dh his boss dumped him into presenting to the board instead of him, so was a big deal. DH said he’d not be able to handle the stress of dd and the stress of showing his work to the board.
a bit of me did wonder at this, but DH was lucky to get this job after bullying/ redundancy/ illness. He has had to learn a new very technical skillseT and work with youngsters who did this as their phds. So he is very insecure. And exhausted. He is very proud that he’s managed to keep it all going and we haven’t had to downsize.
but yes, it would be nice if he could tell them so they actually sorted it that he can’t work on quite so many different projects.

thanks brefugee previous posters said similar, so I did talk to DH and say just this. After today he will go for it.
DC quiet and plays with mates online.

Sorry mrs o and zebra
I cross posted with you. I will read later, need to get on with stuff and not be self indulgent!
thank you

I meant digest later, I’ve read and am digesting. Dh problem is throwing me!

So he is very insecure. And exhausted. He is very proud that he’s managed to keep it all going and we haven’t had to downsize.

to be blunt? it sounds to me as though your DH has some growing up to do. Yes, hard to get a job. Yes, hard to keep up with the younger more qualified ones. Yes, shitty to have this dumped on him.

Maybe it is on him to get himself a less stressful job? and maybe for you to take on more work (i think you said your job was very few hours?) to make up any income shortfall? that way both of you will have room to breathe (him outside of stressful work, you at hopefully non-stressful work)

TBH he is doing that thing where his Man Job and him are so important and the rest of you have to fit round it. It's not healthy, you know

To be fair to DH his boss dumped him into presenting to the board instead of him, so was a big deal. DH said he’d not be able to handle the stress of dd and the stress of showing his work to the board.

And he prioritised showing his work to the board. That tells you something big about him. It does not excuse him.

DH was lucky to get this job after bullying/ redundancy/ illness. He has had to learn a new very technical skillseT and work with youngsters who did this as their phds. So he is very insecure. And exhausted. He is very proud that he’s managed to keep it all going and we haven’t had to downsize.

So what? He hasn't managed to keep it all going. His ego is all tied up in the job and his house. Those are his priorities. You don't have to accept them.
In his eyes your job is to facilitate those priorities for him, by doing all the emotional work at home. You don't have to accept that either.

Though to be fair I don't think DD and DH have "given up" on each other, that would be too easy for you. I think DH has (for whatever reasons, possibly including fear of getting it wrong with DD) rejected DD in favour of his job, and in return DD has rejected you/the family. Maybe this is armchair psychologising but what I see is an almighty struggle for family power and care and attention between DH and DD, with you as the care provider and the conduit. And the people who lose out are you and DS.

I suggets you step out of their power struggle and stop being a conduit. Stop trying to explain DD to DH, or DH to DD. Don't make promises on DH's behalf or tell DD what he will or wont do. If you invite DD over, don't promise that DH will be there. If she asks you, say you will ask him, and then relay whatever answer he gives starting "Dad says..."

As a feminist I'd say you don't have to do his "emotional housework" for him. As a mother I'd say you can't do it for him. Building a fatherly relationship with DD wont be easy for him, he will make mistakes and fuck up along the way, like we all do. But he has to do it himself or it wont be done at all.

TBH he is doing that thing where his Man Job and him are so important and the rest of you have to fit round it. It's not healthy, you know

I recognise this so much.

Does your DH have much outside of work apart from you and the DC?
Friends, hobbies, interests? Or is he just living his life for his Man Job? Obvs he’s not big on the DIY thing, seeing as the house is now your project, does he do anything that isn’t work stuff?

What about you? Where are your friends? I know it can be v. hard to keep up with them as an adult (and hard to make new ones) but I have a coffee in the park with my bestie every other Wednesday- our lives are so different (he’s a childfree bloke for starters) but I listen to him re: his elderly mum and he listens to me re: my weirdo kids. I bet there is someone in your life who would love a similar, low investment but very regular connection.

Have you accessed any grief counselling? Can you do so? I think I might look into bereavement support groups for me - three pronged, it gets me out of these manky sweatpants, I get to meet some new people (my world shrank during covid) plus the actual bereavement stuff. I’ve been doing some solo talk therapy but the number of NHS sessions are limited and it’s been via zoom, so still wearing my manky sweatpants because she can’t see my legs (I just put some earrings in 😆)

It’s almost 20 years since my mum died and I’m still grieving. I can’t imagine dealing what you are dealing with during that first fog of loss. I barely got off the sofa that first year.

I imagine your daughter’s cancellation is motivated by ‘if Dad can’t be arsed then why should I?’ and TBF, if that’s the case, she has a point.
Is your DH at all prepared to examine his role in your DD’s escape? I can’t help but feel he’s the biggest ‘push’ factor, and that’s a pretty impossible thing for you to compensate for.
Can you imagine a scenario where your DH and DD spend time just the two of them?
Did that happen much throughout DD’s childhood?

Can you maybe start doing something little for DS everyday? I’m thinking something tiny like a post it note on his computer screen - famous quotes, crap cracker jokes, the occasional, I love you/I’m proud of you? Start with ‘saw this, thought of you’ and then carry on. Maybe start with one every few days and build up so he doesn’t think mum has had a personality transplant?

Hi @Moomoola I've been following your thread and wishing you all the best. I'm sorry you're having such a shit time. I second the posters who advise you to get out and do something for yourself. I have no advice on the situation with your DD, but maybe some ideas for you and DS. I have depression and can say how much better I feel when I do something constructive with my kids or get out for a walk.

I can't remember how old your son is, mine is 13 and he loves me to come outside and play on the trampoline or football or a bit of basketball. I'm not sporty and will do anything to put it off, but I always feel better and he loves it. It's not healthy for your DS to be on his computer all the time, is there anything you used to do together that he liked? Any films he wants to go and see? Or a trip out for pizza?

It's really hard to be in the moment with your kids when preoccupied, but once you can get to a place where you are in the moment with DS you will feel so much better.

Have you looked into any support groups such as Bayswater for other parents going through this? www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/about_us/