Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

The attitude of your DH could jeopardise the situation for you all. He's creating a lot of stress at home and upsetting everyone - I wouldn't want to come back to this if I were your DD either.
Regardless of his opinion of their choices his opposition to it and use of language is really unhelpful.
I think you perhaps all need to limit how much time you spend talking about this, take the conversation out of the house so you're not constantly going over this in front of your DS.
She isn't a child he can tell what to do anymore.
Your DH needs to find someone other than you to vent to as well. He may need to let this out, but that isn't helping you right now.

Thanks Christmas and beamur I think I’ll insist Dh and I talk outside the house.
DD is on his computer or in his room on his phone. So need an uncle or similar for him, and don’t have anyone!

I agree with the prev posters, the more I think about it too.

Calling a spade a spade, your DD won't come home because she knows your H will be angry and dismissive of her. Taking all the gender stuff away, would you go back to live with your parents at 17 if you thought it's be combative and confrontational 24/7? Probably not, right?

It seems like a lot of the onus from your DH is on you to fix it, which imo isn't fair. You're a team, and he needs to play his part.. Which might be keeping quiet at the minute.

It sounds like he's struggling, and angry.. Has he reached out to your daughter much? If he can calm down and stay calm.. Maybe a text from her dad, just.. Being honest, telling her he doesn't understand what she's going through at the moment but he loves her, would go a way to de-escalating.

yes, he has texted her a few times and got replies. He’s not being angry to her but he’s angry with her. And confused, and lost.
we have a chat booked with a family therapist in a week or so. He said to bring DS too, I’m not sure if that’s good for DS. Of course it’s in the middle of the day so he’ll miss school which he doesn’t like to do.
ughhhhhhhh!

Are you in touch with any of the organisations for parents? Bayswater, genspect? There will be other families in your situation where a parent's fury and hostility, (generated by love and fear I know) are making life worse. Maybe being put in touch with other fathers who're having to navigate this might help?
And maybe you need to insist to your DH that DS must be given some attention and diversion. Go out for a meal (and no talk of the elephant in the room) get a takeaway and watch a film together, a shopping trip - anything you do that he likes. Restore a sense of normality for him and that normal life continues despite the stresses.

How do you think DS is feeling Moomoola? What does he say about this? Does he talk to his sister?

This is a good development. Bring DS - yes there are inconvenient aspects to the scheduling, but really that matters nothing right now. Don't get bogged down in the little details: family therapy right now for you, DH and DS is the key thing.

Thank you tatty does anyone know what to expect?
mrsoverton yes I’m on both forums. There’s certainly a lot to learn most of it shocking.
I have never known quite what to do with ds. He can be very funny and he can be locked away on his computer he doesn’t seem to want to do anything.

Sorry that sounded deafetist!

Sometimes you need to lose the battle to win the war. I have two friends who have both trodden this path. Neither teen has had top surgery or takes hormones and both are 17/18 now, so the danger period for puberty blockers is well over. Both use their children's preferred pronouns and new names and have a good dialogue going with their kids, who still live at home and are off doing interesting education stuff. you admit you have not used their preferred name for 18 months, your husband not only refuses to do so, he's going round policing what friends are doing, such as this lovely mum who has reached out to help you (by the way, I always use the preferred pronouns and names of my teen's friends, given that pretty much every single one is non-binary or trans so they say).

This is not some type of collusion, it's accepting that unless you are prepared to take a step forward, a small one, then you are pushing your dd into a corner. This is likely to backfire.

Others on here will disagree. A similar situation which is nothing to do with trans is one of my children is fixated on having a boob job. Now I think this type of cosmetic surgery is a form of mutilation, not worth the risks, crazy if you want to breastfeed, and an affront to feminism and the acceptance of natural bodies. However, I don't say that ever to her. I just say 'it's your body, it will be up to you' and then, once talking, I have explained why it wouldn't be for me and why I'm worried about what it represents in a more gentle way. Now, she's nearly 18 and may well go ahead anyway, and it is her body and she has the right to make that choice, despite me thinking all the things I think.

I just think entrenching things like names, constantly worrying you are letting down GC thinking if you give an inch and your husband thinking others should be confronting your dd is the wrong way to go about it.

I don't think hearing from detransitioners that they wished someone had stepped is relevant here, because when people take bad decisions they regret, they look round for people to blame and it's easy to say you should have stopped me. Ditto bad marriages, bad boyfriend choices and so on.

I agree with everyone that your son needs attention, and that counselling is a good idea. I'd also be telling my husband that if it comes to his huffing and puffing driving my child away for good, I'd be leaving him but it sounds like that's not for you. No-one stands between me and my child, and given that your dd has reached out a few times to you (not how you'd like but reached out nonetheless, through the teacher, agreeing to meet then cancelling), him huffing and puffing and trying to control everyone is making it all worse. I'd seize on those chinks of light and cut him out temporarily, I really would.

Thanks, that’s a lot to think about.
im more than happy to call dd whatever as I think it’s such a minor concession given where we are. I’m so daft, and I don’t know many teenagers so I didn’t realise what a big deal it is. there is some evidence that affirming with a new name should be done a lot more carefully but I think we are a bit far down the road for that.
thank you for the boob job comparison, you sound very wise and calm. If it helps I’ve had an op on my boob, and while not a boob job as such, there is a gel bag in there ( eeew!) but perhaps more importantly a lot of nerve damage so it’s numb and feels odd if touched.I don’t know if the is the same with enhancements.
I didn’t realise he was huffing and puffing and being controlling, but maybe.
thank you for posting.

I certainly don't know it all when it comes to parenting, please don't think I'm saying that, I'm just describing what I've seen, and to throw some thoughts in there. What you've said about nerve damage to the boob just makes me feel more adamant it's the wrong path for my dd, but it's how to express this, and my deep reservations, whilst making her feel ok as a person and that she can still talk about it. It is SO hard.

Agree with that!
we live in a mad world - get rid of your boobs altogether or make them bigger.
don’t worry, I know no one knows everything about parenting, and what you do know will change.
I just really appreciate your kind thoughts - and wish Wed all done a psychology course!

Re the de boob thing, two of my mums chums had been de boobed due to cancer concerns and they showed me - two angry red lines, a flat chest and a very altered love life with their husbands.
worlds gone mad.

Good luck with the boob job conversation. Does she have any friends that have had it done. What do they say?

Really confused and upset. Last week I Talked to DD who agreed we didn't need a teache as a mediator in order to meet so I can give her her passport. she said she was just pursueded by the teachers and thought I wanted a mediator. (?)
This week I say I'll meet her after school as I can't get time off work.
She is doing a shift at the cafe but can't meet me after.
She will only text, doesn't want to call although it would be a lot easier to chat not text

She can only do this time or that time.
Now she is texting she wants a teacher there when we do meet. What?
I'm fairly sure her partner is helping write the texts. They seem to have forgotten we are meeting so she can get her passport.
What on earth is happening?
DH will be cross, he wants me to give up work so I can do stuff like meet DD when she asks. So now I've pissed him off too. Easier not to tell him.

It seems obvious to me that she is being steered away from speaking to you in person in case she cracks. Easier to keep the emotional distance if she doesn’t hear your voice. Easier to keep you the bad guy if she gets a chaperone. All this to help her forget that you’re her mum.

This is heartbreaking, I’m so sorry.

Your DH is being irrational as ever. Giving up your job so you say ask “how high” as soon as she says “jump”… I don’t think so.

Thanks so much jellycat feeling very lonely.
I think you are right . I couldn't work out what's going on but that makes sense.

That’s my gut feeling, that her partner is convincing her not to talk to you on the phone, or speak to you 1-1, because she might cave and/or realise that she misses you. As long as they maintain distance and coldness they can carry on telling themselves that you are a Suppressive Person, as the Scientologists call it.

Omg thanks jelly that explains why she is being so cold and why she won’t let me pick her up. But we have actually arranged to meet, yay!

Bet she cancels. But oh! Needs her passport.

Don’t take your DS to the first appointment. You might not like the therapist and decide not to go back.

Do a session or two either just you, or you and DH and then add DS in when you know you trust the therapist. They aren’t all good at dealing with the gender hand grenade (good description).

There is a small but ever growing list of therapists and psychologists who are beginning to specialise in gender distressed teens and transitioners. They will usually work directly with the teens or with the family, helping the parents to better support the young person by proxy.

I’ve done this sort of one step removed therapy to help my youngest (who is the cancer survivor rather than the one with ASD or the one who identifies as a boy 😬) it can be very effective as it helps you manage your own feelings and gives really constructive ways to engage with theirs. This sort of therapy could help you to help your son too (and clearly your husband needs some sort of professional guidance).

if you contact James Esses/Thoughtful Therapists or Stella O’Malley/Genspect they will be able to give you a list of professionals - it doesn’t matter where they are located because they will work over zoom/Microsoft teams.

💐
Motherloss is SO hard. It’s utterly awful of your DD to do this to you when you are dealing with bereavement. Sadly, her brain isn’t properly developed yet so she might not realise what a dick she’s being to you until she’s about 25.

Redtoothbrush is right, you and DH need to at least think about the fact that you can’t do much to stop an 17-18 year old doing whatever they want. Does she have a New Labour Child Trust Fund? My kid is planning to use her Tony Blair bux to have her breasts amputated. Hopefully you didn’t top your daughters up because you cannot prevent them from spending the whole lot the day after they turn 18.

Re: the friend that wants to use the fashionable names and pronouns, I’d let that happen, personally. Better your DD be in the home of someone you know and will report back than in the home of the strange glitter mom - she’s going to be called the new name in both houses but she’s going to find it harder to reinvent herself with the old friends than the new ones. Do what you can to keep her close, but not at the expense of your son or your own mental health.

Omg you have had Challenging Times! Sending enormous hugs I cannot imagine what you have been through. Very very well done to you and your son for getting through cancer. Crumbs.
and asd, and a ‘boy’ . I am so so sorry to hear your daughter wants top surgery.
tell her from me ( masectomy) it’s not a walk in the park. Not that she’ll be,ieve me, but it’s painful, horrible drains and stuff and nerve damage so she will likely lose all sensation. And the scar of course. There is also the shock of seeing your new body. But of course she will be being fed the utter crap that makes it out to be a simple thing. I’m so sorry. I really hope she sees sense.

thanks for the tip re therapy. He did suggest bringing ds, but my instinct is as you suggest - to see what it’s all about, especially after reading this
www.partnersforethicalcare.com/materials-for-parents

i did look at the list of therapists. Will start to contact some, again, after reading the above. It’s reassuring to know I’m not making this up or overreacting as the school seems to think. Mind you they have been stonewalled.

id actually forgotten the tony Blair thing, no I’ve never topped it up, never had the spare cash!

yes I appreciate my friend for offering a welcoming space. I do need to look after my and my sons health. Dh is worrying me. He looks haggard. He is good at wrestling with problems which is good for his work, not for his personal health though.

thank you for all your advice. Life sure is crap at times. Hugs.

'hopefully' just a case of her being steered away from talking to you on the phone, but my first thought was has she started taking testosterone?

A voice drop or change would explain the reticence for her to speak to you and have you hear her voice.

The passport is the one bargaining chip you have, I would only give it to her in person and hopefully at your home so she sees the warm family home, with all her childhood memories.

I would definitely do some stuff just with DS, go to the movies, bowling, anything that’s just fun. We have just one teen at home now and it’s fun to do things just with him and my husband. I think with serious family issues the siblings can get overlooked. You have much more control over your relationship with DS at the moment so I would work on building those bonds together, nothing weird, just spend time together and not separately at home stressed out in different rooms. I also think not talking about DD in front of DS if it’s going to be a tense and stressful talk is the way to go. I know you can’t keep up a fake front and I can’t imagine the stress, so just take small steps to at least prevent the three of you at home becoming estranged.
My heart goes out to you ❤️