Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

You asked about escalation. She's asking for legal documents so she can manage life on her own which pushes her further from you. By bringing in a teacher, she's setting you up to look like the unreasonable person. Your DD isn't all that mature because she can't face you without someone from the cult holding her hand, reminding her she should be pulling away from family. If she's on your home turf, she'll be reminded of the healthy family life she's leaving and that cognitive dissonance will be painful.

Now, I do NOT blame your DD - she's been subjected to a lot of love bombing.

I would call that head master and complain about inappropriate relationship between them.

You still have the upper hand of having something she wants.

Have you called genspect or read PITTstack?

I also think you should tell your daughter, in an upbeat and fun way, you have a very cool family vacation planned and can't wait for her to join. Carrot dangling.

That's the usual misleading obfuscation from the adult trans groups who've made a beeline to transition other people's children Moomola. The act makes no legal pronouncements about children because back in the day nobody thought adults would ever be allowed to target children in this way.

Why do you think the DfE have failed to provide the trans guidelines for schools they've been promising for over five years? Because it's a mess. Because there are bad faith actors all over the place gaslighting (and worse) children and young people. These people have footholds in all our powerful institutions and children / young people are mere collateral to their personal desires. They currently hold great power - which hopefully is waning by the hour as the real motivations are currently being exposed. But until those institutions regain their responsibility and their ability to say no to predatory values, children and young people are the main casualties.

Like so many others sending you all good wishes and strength as you navigate all this..

More arguments. Dh doesn’t agree with how we deal with this

Poor you. There's not a right answer for all this Moomoola. There are some really good suggestions on this thread about how to try to maintain a positive relationship / open door while accepting that she's on a destructive course that you can't influence. Looking after yourselves, supporting each other and your other child is important.
What does your DH think you should be doing?

Maybe a kitten or puppy really would help if one of you has enough time to be at home with it.

A cat would be better than a puppy because they don't need the constant attention that a puppy needs. They do need attention but they sleep quite a lot! Perhaps adopt a cat. You can still get kittens and young cats from various rescues. They are usually neutered already. I am sorry about everything that you are going through.

Thanks delphinium yes, I’ve been reading both websites. Thanks they are useful.
Thank you for explaining what’s going on. It sounds absolutely right.
I will try and see dd without the teacher. I sent dd her ni number but she didn’t want to chat today, she’s too busy.
lid love to get her here and get some cognitive dissonance happening. I feel that the more she is away from us the more she will swallow the stuff she is being told.
we’ve invited her to USA in the summer but she’s said she won’t be going.
Dh has even said, ‘take money take dd round the world, whatever it takes’ of course I’d love to, not at all sure she will even consider it.
a mum whose child is friends with dd has said she’ll be welcoming to dd and encourage opportunities to chat. Dh is just angry, he thinks she should tell dd what’s what. Now we are arguing because I’m weak and pathetic and don’t have a plan and he has to do everything but he has to go to work.
its not been a great day.

Thank you cat fans! Yes we rowed about getting a cat too. I didn’t want to spend £400 on one so I am awful. I am nervous because it’s more to learn about/deal with as I’ll be looking after it, ds doesn’t want one, and I know Dh won’t be looking after it!
mrs overton thanks. Dh thinks I should be doing all sorts. Can’t say more because we’ve been rowing and I’ll be unfair!

Thanks, I’m sorry I’m not answering posts individually, I am reading and note taking and learning so very much thank you all. I am so grateful to everyone who has posted, thank you so much for your kind thoughts and wise words.

Not going to comment on the topic itself, but I've been reading your story and your DH is making some positively unhinged suggestions imo. I get it, he's panicking and doesn't know what to do but he needs a talking to.

Suggesting you quit your job is insane overkill and won't benefit anyone - the second your DD found out you'd quit your job to try and what, pull her back, she'd withdraw even more from you imo.

He's suggesting you basically stalk your DD's partner's mum, which again, will force your DD to withdraw even more.

I say this with all sincerity, I think he needs to speak to someone to help manage his emotions and his responses. Coming up with ridiculous suggestions then getting mad at you for not going along with them isn't fair, and he needs to recognise that his feelings don't overwhelm everyone else's.

Ithanks zatroya have to say, you’ve put into words what was confusing me. I do know poor old Dh is really stressed.

He and you and your ds have broken hearts basically, I should think💐

Yes I think you’re right. I lost my mum in the summer and now this. Feeling a bit adrift.

I don't necessarily want to build bridges with her though.

I'm happy enough without her, after everything, if I'm honest. I have my own life with friends I love and a family of my own.

I think that is why I stress not devoting everything to your daughter and losing sight of the impact of that on your son.

Your choices available to you may mean you are unable to 'save' your daughter but you do have the ability to maintain your relationship with your son. Keep that in mind.

Adults have the right to screw up their own lives as much as family may disagree unfortunately. Be there to pick up the pieces though

There's so much grief in all this for all of you - the loss of your Mum and now (in some ways) your daughter. Your DH is lashing out and blaming you in his fury and you all need some support and listening to. Is there anyone in your lives DH would talk to (and who would listen wisely)? Would it perhaps be uniting to talk together about your DS and how to keep his family secure around him?

It's not about him ultimately.

You can force a 17/18 year old to do something they don't want.

Indeed I'd argue that her doing this in the first place is possibly a way of her asserting her own identity separate to her parents - not rebelling as that's the wrong word - but forging her own path.

Certainly I know that my mother was extremely overbearing in many ways to the point of suffocation. I think this played something of a roll in what happened. I went travelling to try and 'free' myself of it. I just wanted to get away from her. I was 25 at this point I would add. And I'd definitely had my own gender identity issues at university (this is way before it was a thing. I was expressing a wish I was a man explicitly and that I hated being a woman).

My parents were exceptionally liberal minded but my mother acted out control in other ways. I found it extremely difficult to find my own way around her.

I just wonder if that's part of the underlying dynamic. Wanting independence but security at the same time.

Dh has even said, ‘take money take dd round the world, whatever it takes’ of course I’d love to, not at all sure she will even consider it.

I mean, I get it. I get why your DH is saying this. He's feeling panic and I would too if I were him. Both of you are in a terrible situation neither of you created and your DD and DS are the most precious humans in the world and you'd both do anything to save them.

There's a part of me that thinks a trip around the world would cure her of the brainwashing-especially if she visits places where young women's lives are much more precarious and their day to day can't be bothered with online navel gazing that is trans ideology. Not that you need to accompany her but some kind of exchange away from the toxic social world she's found herself in.

Easier said than done.

I've been thinking of you, @Moomoola I watch my friends deal with this and my heart breaks.

If you could only keep her from the surgery and the hormones...if she could only wait until she was 25 and her brain is leveled. If only she'd accept she is simply a lesbian or bi and love herself for who she is not what she never will become. I get it. It's a scary time for her and she has no idea.

If she was at all close to your darling mother and misses her, a good rule of thumb following a bereavement is not to take any life altering decisions for at least two years.

I meant perhaps that is an abstract enough reason why she should consider desisting as long it didn’t come over as you using your DM to influence her.

Hi red Well done for creating a family and friends. Im sorry it’s been so tough.
I think you’re right, she wants her own path. It’s probably been a difficult childhood with us both being Ill. I just really don’t want to lose her.
Delphinium ha! I’d love an excuse to bog off and travel!
Scrolling
Thanks for that, I wish I’d known when my dad died!. I’ll mention it to her.
Mrs overtones
I think we really do need to talk to someone and am looking for a counsellor. We’ve lived her 10 years or so but I still miss my old chums and feel isolated. I agree with talking to ds, he closes down immediately. Im concerned he’s hearing all our stressed out chats.
Any tips on how to make him feel supported very welcome. I have always felt the pressure to entertain him as Dh is always too busy at work to think about holidays etc. Im very jealous of friends with loads of local cousins, aunts etc.
now there’s only 3 of us the house feels huge and lonely. I don’t know what to do with son, he doesn’t want to go out or anything.

A friend whose child knows dd has suggested they all hang out at her house regularly, so that dd has a link to her old mates. I thought this was nice, DH says she should be telling dd to come home and not using her new name.
My Friend explains how important it is to this generation to use the correct pronouns etc. and once you get dd to talk to you again you can discuss names.
Dh is cross with her. Goes on for hours, Had an hours worth this morning. disagrees with what I say to the friend but won’t talk to the friend himself. His words as he left for work were, ‘it’s fucking ridiculous’
Im exhausted, with Dh actually. and sliding into depression which I need to watch.
it just feels like everything is unraveling and I can’t stop it.

@Moomoola the more you say about your DH, the more I think he is the biggest block to you getting your DD back home. As gentle and sensitive as you're being towards DD, she knows her dad, and his attitude towards all of this is very clear. If he stopped for a moment to apply some rational thinking, he'd see that going in all guns blazing as he suggests is a surefire way to never get her home again.
I completely understand his frustration but how can he think that he'll get his child home by stamping his feet and forcing her. You can be as nice as you like but your DD knows that her dad will not accept her gender identity if she comes home

Thanks christmas though I’m not sure I want to hear that!