Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

It’s a private swim session, if you book the pool only people you invite can attend.

I can't attend poolside when my son does his lessons. There is no spectator area. I wait in the chaging room or outside depending on the weather.

Yes. In lots of places. See the comments about Hampstead pools for a start...

You seem to have come in somewhere close to the end of the film and are now telling us how the story should have gone.

If you think it is Trans meetings that have to be kept wholly secret you are ignoring a lot of things, possibly wilfully.

Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what about cisgender staff at the pool?

Womens only sessions to exist, ive been to them. I do think it should be over 18s but other than that seems like a positive thing.

Yes, that's always how it was when mine had swim sessions.
You weren't allowed poolside. Luckily there was a spectator room though

Parents are never allowed on the poolside during normal swimming lessons.

Children (usually aged 8+) are always allowed to swim in mixed age/sex/orientation etc swims without a parent or guardian.

I quoted it in the post above, copied from the information in the OP. It states:

Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring

So parents will not be allowed in the building. They will be sent home or shopping. You said if this was to happen then “no chance”.

So do you accept there is a safeguarding concern?

Read the OP.

Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

Parents have to stay in the changing rooms. Their children will be out of sight. Although as a PP has said, surely a parent is a child's carer, so should be allowed poolside or in the pool, as for adults who need carers.

The only issue with this is the fact that this organisation are allowing children to attend without giving proper thought to safeguarding. Which is quite a big issue, and that level of naivety is surprising from a charity.

But, it's a private booking. Anyone can book a private session and invite who they want. I would be concerned if it was a council run pool organising sessions like this, but it's not. It's essentially a private party, I wouldn't allow my children to attend a private party with people they don't know, so the same would apply here.

You may want to look up the threads here (one quite recent) where a female only group has tried to have meetings or events for female only members, and see what tends to happen. Groups are rarely allowed to do this in peace, and can find themselves under heavy attack and legal threats, which rely on someone having the energy and strength and time available to deal with it all.

But yes. Women are being forced to meet under cover and as discreetly as possible and find all kinds of ways around women being permitted to meet/do things only when men are present with them, and women who cannot access mixed sex provisions and groups to just step back out of society. And it's not good. In terms of equality and accessibility, it's bloody awful. And it's based on a huge lack of tolerance coming from men.

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist that's one example out of over 3000 pools in the UK - has anyone actually experienced this personally, as in at their local pool rather than one from a far away land that they read about in the newspaper? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it probably happens so rarely that it's almost a non issue and easily avoided.

If you think it is Trans meetings that have to be kept wholly secret you are ignoring a lot of things, possibly wilfully.

What are you on about here and why so cryptic? Are women's pool sessions held in secret where you live? Because they certainly aren't here!

So, who would be interested in a swimming session where parents of underage children are not allowed to be present (or view from afar), the doors will be locked, and there is no phone reception poolside?
🚩🚩🚩

No. Many of them now allow in anyone who 'identifies as a woman.' My observant Muslim friend, whose way of keeping fit was swimming, gave up her hobby because of the risk of a man being present at her sessions. Inclusion equals exclusion.

From.rrading the info on the sessions and looking at theor website, what leads you to think they have given no thought to safeguarding??

Yeah and i wouldn't have an issue of it wasn't putting out red flag bunting on child safeguarding.

Oh and if women could just go and swim in peace with no men around or in their changing rooms.

2023 Fucking enlightened era my arse.

2023 should be the year of EQUAL RIGHTS not MEN'S RIGHTS

When the children are having swimming lessons are there also a lot of random adults in the pool at the same time?

Is it common for pools to ban parents or guardians when children are in the pool at other times (not for a lesson)? Allowing children to swim unaccompanied is not the same as banning parents from accompanying them.

Just because it’s a private booking doesn’t mean it is exempt from safeguarding procedures. It’s being run by the Rainbow Project whose website says:

The Rainbow Project is a health organisation that works to improve the physical, mental & emotional health and well-being of LGBTQIA+ people and their families in Northern Ireland

They look like a registered charity and still need to adhere to advice around child protection. As much for the protection of their staff as well.

Lol, wtf etc...

I would be really unhappy with this.

I think an organisation offering activities for children that does not welcome parental scrutiny or involvement is putting themselves at risk and showing a lack of understanding of issues that have arisen in similar circumstances in the past.

When the British Gymnastics scandals were reported in the press, one of the most frequent comments was " why did the parents let this happen?" "Why didn't they step in?" and they didn't because they were deliberately excluded and unaware of how their children were being spoken to and treated behind closed doors.

Whilst I am v sure the vast majority of activity instructors are squeaky clean and appropriate, it's having the awareness of the risks that they need to demonstrate.

All the activities my children have done - dance, swimming, gymnastics etc have had suitable arrangements for parental involvement and oversight and I have deliberately walked away from eg dance in a closed studio with baked out windows.

I don’t have any issue with it in theory but there should also be sessions for females.

the no parents thing is a concern but then parents who encourage young children into this nonsense probably don’t have much regard for safeguarding

Exactly what are you implying this organisation are doing at this event?

There is nothing in place at any swimming pool I’ve ever been to that would actually stop men coming into women’s changing rooms if they so desired. Nothing whatsoever.

I’m much more worried about that than a private swim sessions organised by some trans people where they thought maybe they’d be left alone by the likes of this thread, and yet somehow you’ve still managed to make this some kind of axe to grind.

I’m much more worried about the likelihood of your husband / father / uncle / son / nephew male cousin being an offender than this crowd who are just minding their own bloody business. Look closer to home - there’s a whole thread here about kids watching and believing bloody Andrew Tate, FFS.

This isn't only about swimming. Are you new to this topic? If you are there are many threads on the wide range of women's meetings and services that are disrupted merely for being wholly female. This happens across the country, quite regularly. That you haven't personally experienced it doesn't mean it has not happened somewhere near you. Like any Primark changing room.