Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

What I don't understand is why no one here has asked the people that can answer your questions fully? Surely that would be the first thing you would do if you had genuine safeguarding concerns?

And if someone has, hopefully they will follow through when they get a response... either allay every ones fears here or make the necessary reports if they can't.

Oh, it does.

Good

As I said, a quick search on this site will show you that absolutely people have raised the matter.

James Esse was so concerned he went to the papers. And many people have contributed to his crowdfunder.

Former barrister James Esses, 29, said he encountered many youngsters simply confused about gender identity and warned that they should not be automatically labelled as transgender or fast-tracked into making life-altering decisions.

I can't remember if Childline signposted children towards the Webberleys who have been been suspended/struck off. Hopefully they don't now.

He said: 'With the younger children, I realised there was so much they had absorbed from other people, whether it was through online chat rooms or on other organisations' pages.'

Ten days later, Childline told him he could no longer be a volunteer counsellor.

What, you think the women of Mumsnet are just going to idly speculate and not actually take real action?! 😂😂

Are you new here? Woe betide organisations that incur the wrath of Mumsnet. See Mermaids.

See Mermaids, see NSPCC, see Warwickshire Council

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3712398-Petition-to-Warwickshire-County-Council-about-use-of-Respect-Yourself-and-their-promotion-of-porn-in-Sex-Ed-materials

Lol. People challenge these places all the time. They will absolutely be challenging this charity, if they haven't already. Especially people who don't have to remain anonymous or risk losing their job. Because as soon as you are known to challenge these places, you will get targeted.

I don't know if you're implying that these places are never held accountable, but that would be daft, considering how many laws have been changed, policies withdrawn, and charities scrutinised, on the back of such challenge.

What you won't get is people blithely posting all their exchanges on here, so connections can be made.

I suspect a couple of people have. Those who are close enough to have a meaningful voice.

But please do remember that some of us work in areas where openly asking such questions has ramifications on our day jobs! Having had one such bounce back on me a few years ago I am far more reticent than I would like to be.

Childline is run by the NSPCC.

The NSPCC, who who saw nothing wrong with their employee in a gimp suit making a porn film at work and uploading it onto a fetish site. Or a trans woman suggesting minors contact them off grid.

This. It really is that simple -adults or children (with safeguarding) not both at the same time, unless it is a family friendly event. No safeguarding and bathing suits is pretty much a green light for perverts and predators of every gender. Many parents of female children have witnessed red flag behaviour, predominantly but not exclusively from men towards their child. Being trans does not mean that if you are already a predator or a pervert or have those tendencies you will be magically cured of this behaviour whilst or after you have transitioned. Rape and abuse statistics are readily available and make for a sobering read.

Yep. It couldn't be more simple or clear cut.

As many have said so often, in so very many ways during this thread!

Indeed. There isn't a single normal person who thinks otherwise. It's just very useful for people to watch the contortions proponents of transgenderism will go through in order to justify the unjustifiable.

Although I have to say, citing Childline as a charity to justify the behaviour of this charity is a bit of a blinder!

And Girl guides. And any school that used the Dice Game, and wasn't it ASDA and that 'love has no age' video at the start of lock down.

I don't think these posters actually understand that we most certainly DO take it further. Maybe it is projection.

And a person who has no knowledge of the UK safeguarding protocols telling UK posters about UK safeguarding protocols, including the regular MN FWR posters are also safeguarding professionals, seems to be a common theme on many FWR threads.

I am not really sure what more can be said when we have had teachers who have led swimming sessions, and those others who organise swim events saying, there are red flags here and they need to be addressed, being dismissed over and over on this thread.

Not only that, there seems to be a whole lot of forgetting that MNers have trans loved ones and some have family members who would be the age group needing these safeguards. And that once this event has been worked through, and is run very well and rolled out to other areas, that those trans loved ones and family members will also then benefit.

The continuation of the 'it is transphobic' theme really does mean that the discussion is derailed, but it doesn't stop the action from happening now that this thread has been read by so many who don't contribute for many reasons. And these threads are read by thousands of eyes.

The continued posting increased the visibility of it all yesterday, so it will be many more on top of a normal thread which may have thousands of eyes.

So yes, of course MNers are going to write to this event organiser to get answers. Of course they will. There are many reasons to make sure this event works well and safeguarding is the strongest it can be.

If that means splitting age groups, then that means splitting age groups.

It is quite hilarious to think that those letters won't get done.

Struggling to see whats problematic with this much repeated perspective. We have safeguarding for a reason.

Yep. There's good reasons why mumsnet is regularly targeted by DDOS attacks. We spoil the dodgy men's fun.

Can you link up the NHS content on social media that discusses sexual health, or where on the NHS site it discusses Group sex and Chem sex in same way.

Where does it say on the NHS site for instance that

"People enjoy all different kinds of sex in different ways. Some people enjoy sex in a group environment. Group sex can be a group of people who already know each other or a group who don’t know each other."

And that took me two clicks to get to that content. Two clicks. Why does a young child need to understand group sex?

How is that safeguarding a child who might well be swimming at this event from content that is not appropriate for them?

TBH I think much of what we are able to do here as anonymous posters is bring issues to the surface and allow those who are well positioned to investigate and take action to do so.

See also NHS Scotland and the Eunuch Archive.

I'm pretty sure most regulars are perfectly aware of this, but just a reminder that nobody is obliged to report to anyone on here any action taken that might accidentally reveal their identity or put them at risk. Despite taunts that suggest otherwise.

This is a very pertinent warning.

Absolutely. How many posts have asked to 'see the results' of the challenge to this charity??

As I said, one of the characteristics of this ideology is imagining that other people are complete fools.

I don't think these posters actually understand that we most certainly DO take it further. Maybe it is projection.

I think it's because they genuinely don't believe that the women here, many of whom are mothers, are sincerely aghast at the safeguarding loopholes involved in a lot of these children entertainments.

From drag Queen story time, to Desmond is amazing.

Wherever there is a loophole, a predator will walk through it.

if you don't want people to bring you up on that, close the bloody loophole. If you don't want to close the loophole, then get ready to be held accountable.

TBH I think much of what we are able to do here as anonymous posters is bring issues to the surface and allow those who are well positioned to investigate and take action to do so.

There have been several occasions where mumsnet posters have done a lot of digging that has then been picked up and run with elsewhere. Childline gimp and period dignity bloke are ones that stand out for me.

I guess there will be thousands of emails to the charity commission and MPs etc et. that have originated from mumsnet posts.

Certainly I myself have contributed many many emails behind the scenes over various issues even if I haven't posted on the actual threads.

And no I will not be posting details.

And no I will not be posting details.

No. Even mentioning you have done it is a doxxing worry. I do worry about some posters who post text copied from what they have sent.

I'm not personally I think the safeguarding of children and vulnerable in this country and on the internet is truly shockingly appalling.