Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

but just a reminder that nobody is obliged to report to anyone on here any action taken that might accidentally reveal their identity or put them at risk. Despite taunts that suggest otherwise.
Good job nobody's done that then, isnt it
Someone only said to share a response if anyone got one.
Obviously that means do not include any identifying information, that's just common sense and nobody should be doing that - agree completely there

Absolutely, Golf, it is a good job nobody has done so.

Sharing responses here, for obvious reasons, exposes posters to risk.

If this is an event run by a reputable charity, its reaction to safeguarding queries will be "oh sorry, it's not clearly worded is it? Here is our safeguarding policy, and clarification on the ages of attendees and parental viewing policy. Please let us know if you have any further concerns."

A disreputable organisation would strop, obfuscate, cry "prejudice" or ignore queries.

Safeguarding works both ways; it protects those working/volunteering with vulnerable people to false accusations of inappropriate behaviour.

A few years ago, a bunch of church youth groups used to 'take over' the local leisure centre for the evening several times a year to play badminton, football, soft play etc and, half way through the session, to swim/play on the pool inflatables if they liked.

Members of the church groups were welcome to invite their secondary school friends along - there was no religious focus just a chance for teenagers to hang out and have a few hours of fun on a Friday night for a fiver.

Parents/guardians had to sign a new consent form each time their teen attended - each evening was treated as a separate 'trip' - which we had to have in advance (unless the parent physically signed them in on the night).

We used the leisure centre lifeguards but otherwise all the adult helpers on the night were known local church youth and children's leaders who had to have an enhanced DBS due to their work with children and up to date safeguarding training.

As adult helpers we did not enter the changing rooms though we were on hand outside the door in case of issues and, once the room was empty at the end of the night, would do a quick sweep for lost property.

There was a large amount of poolside seating so everyone was encouraged to hang out there during the second half - including the kids who weren't swimming - and no adult helpers entered the water.

Parents were happy to leave their kids there and congregated in the foyer at the end while we checked off those who had permission to go home by themselves and those who were to be collected.

Did we improve our safeguarding practices over the years of running these events? Yes.

Were there still safeguarding loopholes in the improved system? Yes - you can always improve your safeguarding procedures!

What would we have done if someone spotted a safeguarding loophole? Called them a bigot for thinking Christian adults giving up their Friday night to hang out with teenagers at a leisure centre might ever be up to no good NO. Said "thank you for flagging up this potential problem" and then tried to close it. Because that's what people who actually care about children and safeguarding do.

And we are on p 40 already…

*Did we improve our safeguarding practices over the years of running these events? Yes.

Were there still safeguarding loopholes in the improved system? Yes - you can always improve your safeguarding procedures!*

*What would we have done if someone spotted a safeguarding loophole? Called them a bigot for thinking Christian adults giving up their Friday night to hang out with teenagers at a leisure centre might ever be up to no good NO. Said "thank you for flagging up this potential problem" and then tried to close it. Because that's what people who actually care about children and safeguarding do"

Why are you automatically assuming this group isn't caring though?
They say they are doing the exactly same - needing consent forms etc
Why just assume it's unsafe?
Do you for others, or are ust trans groups are suspicious?

What were the ages of the 'youths'?

I have been to similar things in my youth, but it was age limited to the 12 -17 year old bracket.

If this is an event run by a reputable charity, its reaction to safeguarding queries will be "oh sorry, it's not clearly worded is it? Here is our safeguarding policy, and clarification on the ages of attendees and parental viewing policy. Please let us know if you have any further concerns."
Has anyone actually done that then? Again, why assume/insinuate that they are dodging questions if nobody's actually asked?!

Again..... open age group Umbrella.

Do you want just keep on glossing over that fact?

The idea that non-trans parents might be needed in the changing room suggests that the event is open to very young children. Because if you still need your Mummy's help in order to change, surely you need your mummy/someone safe acting in loco parentis to be available at all times?

The changing room otherwise seems a very peculiar choice of place to permit the only non-trans people (bar the lifeguards) in the building. That place where some people are literally getting undressed/naked/showering...

I mean, without the presence of those mummies who have to remain there, it would just be an all male Women’s changing room as all the female people would be in the Men's...

Oh

To quote:
CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles.

What child needs a parent's help to get changed? I'd say by about age 8 that's no longer necessary, apart from some disabilities might mean someone older needs help changing. So the whole thing comes back, again, to the ages of participants.

I would suggest that a child who needs a parent's help getting changed also needs 1-1 supervision in a pool.

Why are you automatically assuming this group isn't caring though?

No one assumed that. ‘This group’ may yet respond in a perfectly reasonable manner to the issues being raised.

The implication was clearly that the usernames on this thread labelling others as bigots for pointing out safeguarding issues don’t care about safeguarding.

that should be uncontroversial, because it is very obvious, but somehow this thread is 40 pages long.

Its not surorising that those trying to change the definition of "all ages" is also supporting a group trying to change the definition of women.

Perhaps it's more about what age someone identifies as?

(CW - 'adult baby' type of stuff discussed.)

medium.com/@transage

No matter how often randoms on the internet accuse posters on FWR of being bigots - women, feminists, men, parents and all responsible adults will see these people for what they demonstrate that they are.
Adults determined to undermine the safeguarding of children in favour of a luxury belief.

That should have come with a content description!!!!

But yet none of you were content to wait for their response, instead you continued, for 40 pages, to make assumptions, bring in unrelated scandals to back your position, berate them at every opportunity and in doing so risk their reputation.

I think the least you can do if you get that reasonable response is share it on the same thread!

Like dont look on this page you really don't want to know

But yet none of you were content to wait for their response, instead you continued, for 40 pages, to

That is the puroise of a forum to fill the pages

From memory, Helleofabore, the youth events were theoretically open from y7-13 but in practice they were almost all 11-16 year olds as the 6th form students generally had outgrown the event/had better things to do on a Friday night. There were a small number of older boys who were super sporty and wanted to make the most of cheap access to the courts so in their case they didn't swim. But yes, lots of awareness of risk within that 'wide' age range which is nothing like as wide as that proposed here.

Thanks Over50 -so (gender neutral) mixed sex changing and 'has' individual cubicles/showers though not necessarily only has them. Presumably there would also be a communal area to access them then, unless the mummies are to wait in a cubicle throughout?

Again, if this was an adults only event, seriously, great idea, fill yer boots.

But for what reason would a charity invite all ages to an event but then actively hamstring the ability of parents to safeguard their children at it? Naivety can be as antithetical to safeguarding as malign intent...

Funny how the poster who dominates the thread doesn't read (or understand) what other posters say. It's been repeatedly explained why sharing responses on here is dangerous for women because of the threatening nature of some transactivists, yet here you are ignoring those responses and still trying to score some sort of gotcha. So not only uncaring about safeguarding but women's safety as well.
Quite the charmer.

Is this finished yet?

Safeguarding concerns should never be dismissed.