Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

Are trans women happy sharing their changing areas with trans men and non binary people? If this were the case then I would be happy if gender neutral changing areas were available everywhere - and male and female only areas as well. Obviously this would have to extend to hospital wards and prisons as well.
I am quite surprised actually that all trans together is a comfortable thing for all trans people.
Unaccompanied children though? Wouldn't be happy with that.

I also think it's a good idea, it will get a good idea of how many people want to use this kind of session, and the local authority can set up sessions. I really don't see how encouraging people to swim is a bad thing. Also insisting under 18s have a consent form is responsible, so all I'd want to know if my kids wanted to go is if there are DRB checked people (I am assuming that would be the lifeguards) and how many lifeguards will be present.

If men want to set up sessions where they can bully each other out of swimming lanes, instead of bullying women out of swimming lanes, have at it.

Perhaps women's groups would like to also rent the pool for natal women only swimming sessions to similarly gauge need/requirement for these sessions.

I think it's a positive thing. Swimming is great. There should be more of it

Then book out a pool amd organise one!

And you think that would be allowed do you?

There's a similar poster at my pool. Some people do strip all off when changing. I do in adult only spaces.

i also hope that there aren't groups outside protesting this. Michelle Obama's mantra of "when they go low we go high". Women don't like being harassed at women only events, and so that courtesy should be extended to other events.

Well of course people get naked when changing. But they felt the need to specify genitals covered in the pool.

You seem to think that people are going to be topless in the pool, otherwise why would you think that parents and guardians wouldn't be present?
It clearly says in the OP that parents are allowed in the changing rooms, it's just pool side theyre not.
As someone else upthread mentioned, over 8s are allowed to swim unaccompanied providing they're a competent swimmer.
If they couldn't swim surely their parents wouldn't let them in the pool by themselves at that age.
Is it just when it's trans people you worry about over 8s in the pool by themselves, or every day swimming with mixed sex too?
HTH

Just a reminder that there used to be ladies only pond on Hampstead along with a men’s and a mixed pool but of course the TRA couldn’t have women having their own pool free from men so it’s now “inclusive” of TW so it’s effectively a mixed pool

of course that’s not inclusive for Muslim or Jewish women but who cares about them eh so long as men are happy Let women swim

so bear that in mind when ppl start on about women organising their own women only sessions. We did, we had them but TW can’t be having that

for all ages... Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

So this is for adults and children, whose parents/guardians are forbidden from accompanying them?

Do religious groups ever have 'all ages' swim sessions for adults and children whose guardians are excluded?

Also insisting under 18s have a consent form is responsible, so all I'd want to know if my kids wanted to go is if there are DRB checked people (I am assuming that would be the lifeguards) and how many lifeguards will be present
This, you'd want to know that regardless of which session you were attending

I don’t think there is such a thing as a trans child, so there is no reason why young people/ children would need or want such a session. For the children that have other difficulties, is it really going to help to share changing rooms with adults who may or may not have altered their own bodies?

If this was adults only it would be a great idea.

Adults only, fine as long as women only means just that.

The absolute state of some of the responses on here. The Cass Review can't come soon enough - hopefully with a public information campaign about what safeguarding is and why we have it.

It’s incredibly unlikely that women will issue death or rape threats over this and I would be very surprised if anyone who is not Trans or non binary would turn up to protest or crash the event to prove a point. People attending the event will probably not have to walk past balaclava clad women hurling insults and pushing them and I doubt the police will attend and tell the organisers to cancel for everyone’s safety. I also doubt that the pool will tell the organisers they can’t hold the event as it’s not inclusive enough

In a normal session a parent is allowed to join their child or watch. (Or an alternative designated adult with DBS for a club etc)
Its the parents banned,random non DBS adult not that makes safeguarding alarm bells ring.

The charity may well have organised DBSed safeguarding trained adults to supervise and escort the younger participants. But that is not the implication from that advert.

So nothing to actually say, then?
Standard

Yes, this was the issue I was struggling to remember, the Hampstead one. Thank you!

Allowing children to swim unaccompanied by an adult is not the same thing as banning parents from being present.

Why would anyone want to ban parents from being present at an event attended by their child, where many the of other participants are adults who have not been DBS checked?

Parents are in the changing rooms.
Over 8s have always been able to swim unaccompanied.
Do you have a problem with this scenario when non trans people are involved?
Or just now, and if so why?
Or are you just going to grumble "state of" and not actually reply?

Allowed. Not required.

@RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella I think it was you that showed you have rather too much to say. And all of it showed you don't/won't understand red flags and safeguarding. I hope your job doesn't involved vulnerable adults or children.

No problem with the session with the following caveats.

-No under under 16's.

-Women only groups are allowed to book their own sessions without hassle and stress.

I dont think relgious groups should have separate sessions.

Allowing children to swim unaccompanied by an adult is not the same thing as banning parents from being present.

Repeating this, for those who don’t seem to get it.