Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

“no one” is everyone obviously.

As an aside... as demonstrated on Mumsnet,UK parents don't routinely allow their 8yos to do things like walk to school alone, stay home alone or go to the park alone... do they really allow them to go to the swimming pool alone?

I've always read that as not needing a certain parent to child ratio rather than drop off and pick up later.

No way would I have let my 8yo go swimming without parental supervision

When you say ‘sign up’ teen, does that mean they pre-book a general swim session and not just turn up?

And there are a plethora of historical threads debating what age children should be allowed to go into the - usually male children in male - changing rooms by themselves and the unease it can bring. Even under normal circumstances it raises safeguarding concerns. The general consensus is there’s a window of risk for boys who are too old to be in women’s changing rooms but too young to protect themselves.

You misunderstood, I obviously wasn't clear.

The first part of my post was a reaction to the swimming session in the OP.

The second past of my post was about 8yos being able to swim unsupervised by a parent at my local pool, where indeed they can just turn up to a general swim session as far as I'm aware.

Yes putting down. I agree.

Hence my question was not about ‘legalities’ which I consider much too young to be in a general swimming session without a parent still, regardless of swimming experience. And I say that as having a child at swimming lessons since 18 months because we had access to a backyard pool. There is a massive maturity difference between 8 and 10 even.

My question was what age are parents generally doing this. And to clarify, a general open swimming session.

Thank you. I was just clarifying whether it was a sign up situation where the pool would know in advance.

thanks

It's a 'fun pool' aimed at kids/families where you wouldn't go to swim seriously.

I think trans and non binary swimming sessions are a great idea - swimming is great exercise but the nature of the clothing worn could understandably lead to some trans/non binary people feeling uncomfortable in a public swim.

If this were an over 18s event, I see no problem.

Me too. Although I also wonder how many trans women turn up because surely they won't feel validated if there aren't any of us cunty women there? 🤔

Can you think of a reason why parents of these children are being expressly told they aren't allowed to attend?

Agree Hiccup.

Also

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

Dont tell anyone where this is taking place??

And no phone reception? What does that mean? Doesn't the pool have a landline? How do people get in touch with the venue?

And finally, where does it say over 8s only??

And locked out??? So no-one can get in, call in, get out or call out and no-one knows it's going on either, because everyone's been told to keep it secret. And the place is deserted.

Jesus.

That’s true of consent forms for pretty much any scenario in schools, guides, scouts, youth groups etc. It’s not like society enforces witnessed ID verified parental consent as a standard, so questioning it just here seems unreasonable.

I'm assuming they'll verify the identities of the attendees? And they'll be no opportunity for a child to get lost in this, otherwise, empty and locked building?

The child could forge their parent's signature on the form to hand in, tell their parents that they're going to a friend's house and turn up on their own to be locked into a building with a load of random adults and no phone reception.

What could possibly go wrong?

Mumsnet: trans people should have third spaces and not intrude on womens spaces

Also mumsnet: this third space trans people have set up for themselves is not safe for children even though the consent requirement is more stringent than for public sessions because… erm… trans.

But, importantly, this latest move gives adult males access to children in the swimming pool without their parents allowed to be present. And that’s progress, isn’t it?

Along with my question as to what might be the reason to expressly forbid parents from attending, can you think of a reason for the statement about the venue being kept a secret?

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information.

Strawberry I guess you're right. Normally consent forms I've signed since DD left primary have included handing over large sums of money too, but I guess other ones have just been sent back such as vaccine permission.

My guess is no one under secondary age would attend without parental knowledge as they don't generally wander around without parents. It is the explicit banning of parents that does concern me plus the whole secrecy thing.

What schools tell children to keep the venue secret, dismiss all the staff, lock the doors and expressly forbid parental access, whilst not publicising a single safeguarding policy?

Yeah, right. Open age sessions with no parents allowed😳

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too,

The more I look at this, the more weird it is. This cant be right. You cant just tell all the numerous people who work in a swimming facility to leave. What about the office workers, receptionists, cleaners??