Can I be forced to use pronouns?

[nationallampoons]

Hi all.

I work in hospitality and my company have recently taken on some new recruits.

One is non-binary and uses they/them pronouns but is considering she/her pronouns. He was born male. He looks male. He had the same uniform as you would expect, neon hair, piercings, multiple badges on his uniform stating his pronouns, he's vegan, free Palestine, f Boris etc.. (I'm not against freeing Palestine or vegans) but you can imagine the type. Everyone's a "facist" etc.. it's draining at times.

Here is my problem, I don't want to use they/them pronouns. It feels unnatural when talking and I struggle with it anyway. I just don't want to do it, I don't care if that makes me rude. I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of being moaned at for misgendering. He just doesn't shut up about it.

Now he's saying he believes he may be a woman and is asking questions about "women hood" and all that bs, I've told him I'm not comfortable talking to him about it and I was called a boomer, a Karen and a gammon?? He is considering changing his pronouns in the new year.

Here is my question. Legally, can I be forced to use his preferred pronouns? Not arsed about losing my job, but I don't want to get into any criminal trouble

I just want to go to work, earn my living and go home. I don't have the time or energy or willingness to go along with this bullshit

Yes, I understood what you were saying.

I’m honestly embarrassed for you and those defending you. You coworker sounds like a bit of a pain and shouldn’t be ripping into you but they aren’t asking much. If this is the hardship you face then I don’t know what to tell you. You find it hard to use different pronouns, give me strennnngthhhh.

Your term is outdated please educate yourself there. Also more people regret boob jobs than transitioning. Put the daily Mail down babe.

You work in hospitality

It's not outdated to many people who wish to change sex and don't believe that having a gender identity is a requirement to be "trans".

What data are you using to compare regret rates? I thought it was widely reported that many young people who change their minds are never followed up?

Use his name avoid pronouns.
Keep a diary of any derogatory remarks like 'gammon' or 'Karen'.
He's the one who's intolerant and offensive.
Report him if it continues.
He's an arrogant arsehole.

I was responding to the idea that I was apparently “forgetting” many people here have “special identities”. I know I’m not the only one with a child with autism and / or disabilities. That’s very clearly not what I was trying to say if you read the original post I quoted. I was saying I do have some limited experience- as do many others - of what it’s like to live a life judged by others, ie an identity that is outside the realm of what is expected perhaps. So perhaps that makes me more empathetic. Who knows.

You do not have to change your beliefs to use they / them. You can accept that there is a new pronoun in terms of use of language without believing people can change sex if that is what you wish. I think language is something that evolves. Agreeing to use they / them doesn’t necessarily have to mean you agree people can change sex entirely. That’s a separate debate.

I think it’s really sad the amount of transphobia on Mumsnet. It is the one aspect of the site that really lets itself down. There’s a lot of irony in the idea thrown about that trans rights are somehow akin to removing women’s rights and yet here are a load of women tearing into other women and calling them uneducated, ignorant and stupid for daring to have a differing view to themselves.

Clitoral Violence

More tea vicar☕nice slice of cake 🍰

Just proves my point really. 👍

"I'm not going to refer to you as plural because that's ridiculous."

Oh dear you're setting off all the klaxon filters tonight.

And yet you cannot have empathy for a woman who refuses to believe her eyes are lying and she is seeing double. They is used for plural, or unknown sex. Neither of which applies here.

There’s a lot of irony in the idea thrown about that trans rights are somehow akin to removing women’s rights

Are you able to specify which trans rights you are talking about, @Afterfire ?

I accept they/ them USED to be only used for more than one, ie plural. You are being deliberately difficult if you can’t see that in terms of pronouns it is no longer used in that sense.

I have empathy for the fact the op finds it difficult to adjust to using they / them.

It doesn’t mean someone shouldn’t attempt to use them though.

The right to use womens toilets as that always comes up for a start. But in all honesty there’s too many to get into - earlier posts that have tried to “educate” me have been fairly vocal about it all if you want to read back through the thread. I think you know exactly the things I’m referring to because it’s the same things everyone trots out on Mumsnet again and again in these debates.

OP, I wonder why you even posted this threat since you have gone on to do nothing but tell us how "not bothered" and "not arsed" you are. What are you actually looking for from us? As somebody above said well, they sound insufferable but so do you.

*thread

No, I am being sensible. I refuse to lie to myself to pander to somebody elses fragile self esteem.

The irony of the trans validation ideology is that it requires so little effort from the subject, and so very much from everyone else.

We will have to agree to disagree as I don’t actually think it requires much of anyone really. Occasionally I do call my dds trans friends he / she in error but I quickly correct myself and they know I am trying my best and we all understand it’s not done with bad intent. Everyone has to try and be understanding of each other - it works both ways. They’re not shouting at me for calling them “he” by mistake and I’m trying to do my best and they know that.

When decimalisation came in (before my time!) it took everyone ages to get the hang of it but now it’s all just second nature to us all now. I think “they / them” will become the same thing. My dd has a lot of friends who all use “they / them” and she never says he / she in error, she uses it so frequently and easily it’s just normal to her.

It may not come naturally at first but the singular "they" has been part of the English language for a very long time (Shakespeare was known to use it, for example).

I'm not very up on my Shakespeare, but did he use it to refer to a known individual?

We all commonly use 'they' when we don't know the person we're talking about - e.g. "if a customer wants to return an item, they will need to bring in their receipt" - but that's completely different from saying "Simon is meeting me at the bus stop, but they've just messaged me to say that they're running late".

My dd has a lot of friends who all use “they / them” and she never says he / she in error, she uses it so frequently and easily it’s just normal to her.

When you and she say "they/them", do you think that signifies anything? Do you think that the friends actually are not boys or girls? If you don't, why is saying "they" "correct" and "he/she" "in error"?

Hmm, except road signs are all still in miles, we measure height in ft and inches still, speed is mph, drinks are in pints, cook books have recipes in imperial measures as well as decimal... and that's decades after the process of metrication was initiated. I think using sex based pronouns is probably at least as ingrained as some of those weights and measures.

The person sounds utterly insufferable. I have my opinions on the whole gender societal issue right now, won't be a popular one, in that I think it's a bandwagon people jump on when they can't get the attention they need. I think the lot of it is complete and utter bollocks and we are in the age of snowflakes, and that actually, it is becoming fucking harmful. There, I said it. But aside from his gender bollocks, the other attributes you mention make him a walking cliche in my eyes and I've no time for people who just follow all the latest fads like this. I could go on, my opinions are very strong, but for the sake of potentially not needlessly offending anyone further, I'll stop - after all, opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one.

The point I'm trying to make, is that I'm very against some of this stuff. But regardless, we are talking about, legally (whether you agree or not) potential discrimination here, in the workplace. Be very careful, OP. I know you don't care if you lose your job, but this shit sticks and can follow you.

I don't agree with any of it, but personally, I've no desire to be discriminatory in the workplace. I may technically have discriminatory views, that I can air in certain places, which perhaps makes me a hypocrite, but being guilty of it in the workplace is not good, for you.

Seems that I have mistaken decimalisation with metrication... but it's a better comparison I think!

Just use their name every single time.

call out their abuse every timeTBH

I'd go out of my way to use their name to avoid pronouns.

I'm surprised they're allowed to wear badges as part of their uniform

Because I can’t see them making much of a go at it, they sound both boring and aggressive, as well as the usual helping of self obsession.

All used in this thread despite everyone supposedly being sure the colleague referenced in the OP is a male.