Scottish Parliament final debate on Gender Recognition Reform today

[ArabellaScott]

At some point after 2pm, in the Big Room (the Chamber).

www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/whats-on-and-watch-live/whats-on#wm

Will be interesting to see how the Amendments go down, if they are all struck down as the ScotGov wishes - www.holyrood.com/news/view,gender-recognition-reform-crunch-vote-after-shona-robison-warns-msps-over-amendments

'the Scottish Conservatives have warned that the debate could lead to a "travesty of democracy" because a 15 minute time limit for each proposal will "shut down" discussion.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64032916

Do we start writing to Downing Street now? (My MSP is SNP & stopped just short of calling me a bigot...)

Christmas has come early for incels.

Nevertheless, men aren‘t women.

What do we do now?

I mean MP of course (my MSP is slightly more polite but still voted against rapists being excluded from self ID)

Crushed. Only 39 MSPs prepared to protect women and girls.

And so the fightback begins.

Id be interested to see which of the TRA s actually legally sign to say no they aren't lying they are of course a woman.

I hope we are all wrong, I hope no women or girls are harmed because of this.

I hope no bad faith actors get access to people and places that shouldn't be in.

I really really hope Westminster step in.

I don't actually have much faith in any of those things though.

I've just watched it again whilst stood right up by the tv. I hadn't noticed originally, but you are correct.

Yes 86. No 39.

No abstentions.

re an earlier comment about Lady Haldane ruling. Her ruling changed nothing merely confirmed what the existing legal framework is. That a GRC legally (actually impossible) makes you the opposite sex for certain purposes. But over riding that is the EA that clearly states where deemed necessary single sex services can be provided and in those instances anyone with a GRC is treated as being the sex they were born.

So even if Scotland adopts new self identification route to GRC it is still subject to the EA. Unless Scotland somehow says we are opting out of this UK law.

Our problem is as much about those, including women's groups who have decided they dont wont to use the single sex excemption, or for ideological reasons are misrepresenting the EA to say that the excemptions dont mean sex, when they do.

And as we found out with Edinburgh RC even if you complain to the regulators that they misadvertised a post as being women only under the EA nobody does anything.

We need to ask why so few organisations, including health providers, do not make use of the single sex excemption. Even if the EA was reworded to make it clear that single sex means biological sex, if institutions, sports bodies, health providers and so called women's groups dont care to use it, the existence or not of a GRC is not the problem.

It is the failure of society as a whole to respect women, including women.

If a rape crisis centre that says it works on feminist principles can advertise a post like this and claim it is protected by the EA is it any wonder that politicians think they can get away with attacking women's sex based rights. www.sarsas.org.uk/opportunities/trans-non-binary-intersex-and-gender-variant-group-lead-facilitator/

I look forward to reading the list to find out who not to vote for.

'Jamie Greene, of the Scottish Conservatives, says he will be supporting the bill.

He tells the chamber the Conservative movement he joined was one that flies the rainbow flag and is committed to ending conversion therapy.

"I know tomorrow when I wake I have to look myself in the mirror," he says, adding in future he will know he chose the "side of history that made another human being's life easier".'

He doesn't see women as human beings.

I saw that earlier, Arabella, and thought the same thing.

I wish, though realise it is pie in the sky, that the media and politicians had also reported on the increasing number of detransitioners and the impact on LGB community.

We have been so over run by the weasel words of the alphabet soup campaign to change language, that actual specific groups have been ignored / erased.

Yes. There have not been enough people with the gumption to say no.

You can always invoke the exemptions.

“Women not being sexually assaulted in my shelter” is a legitimate aim.

“Nobody with a cock is allowed in my shelter” is a proportionate means of achieving that aim.

Especially since other, more polite routes to achieving it have been closed off.

Scottish women and children

We will keep going

You have no clue what you are taking about. Evidence collated from countries with Self ID points in the opposite direction. Scottish women will no longer have recourse to question any male in their space.

Get fucked

Thank you ArabellaScott for your commitment to this thread, I could feel your pain, anger and frustration throughout your posts. Will continue to watch closely to see what happens next and what can be done about it.

I agree with ResisterRex

Utterly dismayed this has gone through and furious that not only the SNP feel this is a good use of tax payers money, they have the nerve to raise them, blaming everyone else for incompetent budget management.

Just heard the news it had passed.

I’m so sorry for those feeling it badly today.

Seconded.

Me three

Take heart, women.

Women's rights are human rights. It's not over yet.

We will not wheesht. We've barely even got started.