Is feminism unfairly demonising boys/men?

[Axolotlquestions]

I'm seeing a lot of pushback at feminism in 'gender critical' circles because it's being lumped in with critical social justice. That is, the mentality that says all white people carry the guilt of centuries of racism is also applied to the concept of sexism, with all men being blamed for patriarchy. I'm trying to get my head around my position on this.

Could the wise feminist minds of Mumsnet take a look at this and give me your thoughts?
genspect.org/girls-are-better-than-boys/

It's for men to fix their own problems and the dangerous feckers who are men. Feminism is for women and girls.

I don't feel we are putting an unjustified amount of pressure on men for sorting their shit out. I don't believe they are having to shoulder a historical burden of crimes past. It's crimes now - 2 women a week are murdered by men.

If a man rapes a woman and a feminist highlights that: who is responsible for the his demonisation? Him for doing it or her for describing it?

don’t need to read the link to know this is yet another attempt to blame women for men’d faults.

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.

Much like when disciplining children, or Christian rhetoric - it's the behaviour that's the problem, not the men themselves. If men would stop behaving so poorly, they wouldn't be thought of so poorly.

The most I can do is my best to turn my children in to good people.

Sigh. Yes, yes NAMALT.

Really? Demonised you say? Can you give a couple of examples of all men being demonised so I've got a clearer idea of what that looks like?

Did you read OP's post and the article? Or just the thread title.

Not completely on-subject, but I am often astounded by casual sexism in both directions.

I don’t find ‘mansplaining’ any more acceptable as a concept than assuming that women ‘don’t get maths’.
“The bast man for the job is a woman” not necessarily

It would be much better for everyone if nobody made assumptions based purely on sex-based stereotypes. That would be my preference - hence my lack of patience with the concept of gender.

@waterwitch would be surprised at anyone on this board thinking women don't get maths. Seriously perplexed by anyone in my generation (teen/young adult in the 1980s) who believes that kind of regressive nonsense. Or anyone old enough to have lived through WWII who thinks that nonsense given the achievements of women then.
This is a few dumbass millennials thinking that's what old people think.

Yes I read the article. I think it's a very twisted and partial description of how boys experience the world.

Porn use is a cancer to young sexuality (for both sexes), but it's not inevitable - it's a choice.

Some boys (and girls) find it hard to concentrate in class but my experience (I have one of those boys) is that teachers use lots of strategies to support them - I don't recognise demonisation here either.

And I'm failing to see what anything in that article has to do with feminism. More like capitalism found another way to sell sex - Jon Ronson's podcast on the origins and rise of Pornhub and the "free" porn explosion is good on this.

Why ? When it's a problem being foisted on them by woman.

men and women alike need to be better

It reads very much like 'it's everyone else's fault, mainly women and girls, as to why I decided to call myself a girl'.

What are your thoughts OP?

Is it womens' and girls' fault, for understanding the unwritten rules of good behaviour [which may well stem from being afraid that someone [a boy/man] will thump them if they step out of line] that males try and opt out of 'toxic masculinity' and call themselves girls?

@maddy68 , men need to stop raping women. Men need to stop other men getting away with it.
Then we can talk about women having to do something better. I'm

Maybe men should simply take more
responsibility for this stuff. Not just say, ‘oh I’m not like that’.

Let’s face it, men as a group will change their behaviour when other men challenge and ostracise them for their problematic behaviour.

And boys need much better male role models.

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.

This 👆🏼and also:

1. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.

12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry

If men want to not be demonised I suggest they target the people who's actions are responsible for them being "demonised".

You hate yourself for being a bad porn-addicted member of the patriarchy.

^And then you learn you can opt out – from male privilege, toxic masculinity, and rape culture –
from all of it. Being non-binary or pansexual or some gender identity even more exotic means
you don’t have to be a member of the bad patriarchy^

What the fuck load of drivel did I just read? Why are you asking feminists to read something from this navel gazer at his one man pity party?
Also, you can't start a paragraph with "And".

It's not women's fault that men get addicted to porn and become mentally unwell 🤷

And I'm failing to see what anything in that article has to do with feminism.

Agree with this. I'm failing to see the connection too.

I do think there needs to be a conversation had around the concept of white privilege and male privilege and, of course, "cis" privilege. The way people talk about it as a given. Other views do exist.

I'm surprised Stella has fallen for this shite.

Just to say, I worked with young adult males 14-19 a few years back. I worked with some really damaged males, who had mental health issues, many who played the game of 'I can't see words', who got 'support' at school to write and ended up becoming so far behind all the others they could never catch up, who had been in youth offender units, who had committed extreme violence towards women and girls, and in many cases, towards other young men and boys.

That 'essay' really reminded me of their constant excuses to be honest. It was never their fault.

Have I missed something (or read something into this that isn't there) but is this person referring to the thing I think we're not allowed to mention on these boards, at the end? It doesn't sound like they think they've been a woman all along - but that their 'virtual friends' have tried to convince them? Anyway, I don't think this is really about what they think it's about ...

'Meanwhile, your devotion to porn grows deeper. More and more, the excitement you feel, and
the humiliation that fuels so much it, arises from seeing yourself as a woman. Your virtual
friends online convince you that you’ve been a woman all along, and that there’s an obvious
solution to the shame-ridden distress you have felt since … well … forever.'

The articles start tells us how girls are born knowing how to behave better so it's harder for boys. You know like 'women are better at housework/cooking/parenting/life admin because of their nature'.

Wow we are starting young with piling the pressure on girls to be better because they were born that way and if they aren't then they mustn't be a good girl aren't we.

Boys behaviour however is excused because it's so much harder for them to behave well.

And when they learn about sexism, slavery, racism and rape culture that then apparently triggers them to be interested in hard core porn.

Because of course that's an obvious link 'oh shit rape is bad, better go watch some porn videos where rape is depicted'

Yeah this is totally womens faults, not those poor men who apparently can't control their behaviour from start to finish and anything they do wrong is because of us.

You know what is demonising men? Shit like this that assumes men have no control over their thoughts, actions or feelings and that anything they do bad is someone else's fault.

I believe men are capable of so much more than this article would have you believe, that doesn't make me/us the ones causing the issue.

I hope nobody is actually given a worksheet that asks them to identify their privilege, especially as a child. That would seem a very clumsy and wrong-headed thing to do. It certainly isn't how sexism and stereotypes are taught in Scottish schools; at least, not in any of the lesson plans I've read. In those, children are taught that stereotypes can be damaging for boys and girls.

The rest of the article seems to be someone whining about how nobody understood them, how they got told off for acting out, and then they got seduced by porn despite themselves.

'A girl almost never hears the words, “If I have to tell you one more time …”'

You got told off for doing something wrong. Get over it.

What this man needs is someone to be bracingly honest. He needs to take responsibility for his bad behaviour and get over his deep sense of entitlement.

In that respect, feminism might actually do him some good, were he able to actually listen when it's set out for him.

Women need to be better? How could I have been a better rape victim? Should I have made him feel wanted? Not reported him? What?

Try thinking about what it is you are suggesting.

Also I'm struggling to tie together

Women are treated better and have life easier

With

Sexual excitement from the humiliation from seeing yourself as a woman

How can women be both simultaneously the better sex and it be humiliating for a man to be seen as a woman?

I don't think I agree with your characterisation of patriarchy as something all men are blamed for. Rather, I think it's better to think of patriarchy as a system which privileges men over women and which all men therefore benefit from, whether they want to or not. When a man becomes aware of this unfairness, he should do what he can to counteract and end it. Not doing this is where the blame lies, rather simply in having been born male.

Likewise CSJ- I don't think the argument is that every white person is to be blamed for the existence of racism. Rather, we should recognise that we live within a system that privileges white people over people of colour, and white people should do what we can to counteract and end that unfairness. The blame lies in not doing so, rather than simply in having been born white.

All this implies that there's a moral obligation to actively oppose prejudice, rather than simply go through life without thinking about it. As a member of the privileged group, not being sexist or racist yourself isn't enough.

This is how I understand it anyway- would welcome other people's thoughts.