The vast majority of people can identify other people's sex; so why the pretence that men are women?

[NewLightbulbs]

Just this, really.

The vast majority of people can identify other people's sex very quickly; it's bloody obvious. So why the pretence that men are women, and we will threaten you if you don't play along?

Is that really being kind? Or is it bludgeoning with threats of job loss, assault, doxing, rape, death?

For correctly observing that a man is a man?

Is there any sanity at all in this state of affairs?

@DameHelena
That explanation makes no sense! They must just have a list of words or phrases that someone has decreed are unacceptable, because there is no logic.

No, it's certainly not consistent. Go figure.

DameHelena - for some reason that useful descriptive term, 'counterbalanced' by the idiotic 'cis', are explicitly mentioned in the guidelines. But posts discussing 'cis' or using it in a general way are (rightly) normally not deleted whereas the one you used rarely escapes the notice of the 'monitors' and gets deleted. I'm afraid we just have to use other alternatives even if they're less accurate or concise.

DameHelena, the reason that acronym is banned is because it uses clear language that correctly sexes individuals. This disrupts the performance, accurately described above as a giant sexist game of Let's Pretend.

I got a post deleted for a phrase that means painful lexemes/emotions. Again, correct language must be suppressed.

Yes, double standards apply.

Yes, I prefer it to things like 'transwoman' as it's clearer and more accurate. Public surveys show that the general public often think 'transwoman' means a biological woman presenting as a man.
I am very worried about the distortion and suppression of language in this arena.

I cannot find the links I am after.... but this is a start. The explanation from Samphire at 17/05/2022 16:18.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4549905-standing-for-women-manchester-event-sun-15-may?page=10&reply=117298655

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2020.00320/full

Table 2 shows that sex can be identified from gait by the study cohort with 65% accuracy just from dots on the joints over a 3.8 second duration.

Just adding this link to the thread. It is a price list of just what 'facial feminisation' entails.

www.thelondontransgenderclinic.uk/price-list/

So the facial features that a male needs to change to better simulate a female's face starts with the following (alphabetically listed):

Brow lift
Cheek enhancement
Chin reduction / shaping
Eye feminisation
fat grafting
Forehead / brow contouring
Hairline lowering
Jaw shaping
Rhinoplasty (this may also include the change to the nasal columella to around 95 degrees which is different to 'male', removing a normally bulbous nasal tip, )
Thyroid shave / Adams apple reduction
Upper lip lift (I wonder if this is to give the 'v' which is a female trait vs the 'u' of males. OR could be combined with the rhinoplasty to change the space between the nose and lip which is shorter in females than males according to many cosmetic surgery sites. I guess if you shorter this you also emphasise that nasal columella angle to be more like a female angle)

I can only assume that the image attached is an aspirational before and after.

I cannot quite understand posters who seem to be determined to tell us that sex cannot be intuitively and quite accurately understood from unsurgically altered male faces. I am quite sure that Sal Grover could come and tell us what her algorithm measures as it is rather accurate which is why a transitioned male was taking her to court regarding access to Giggle.

So, combined with face and general skeletal proportions such as males having bigger heads and longer arms and legs, bigger hands and feet, different angles of bones in hips/legs etc, I suspect that some posters are either really not very observant about the specifics of male faces and anatomy.

Or determined to spread misinformation about people 'not being able to tell that is a male' for whatever reason.

It's so incredibly tragic that anyone would have all that (painful and expensive) surgery on a healthy body. Not to mention after going through all that a male physique will never be able to naturally and unthinkingly walk like a female physique because of the different hip physiology so it will still stand out a mile.

Hopefully, one day men who want to present as women by wearing traditional feminine clothing will wise up to the cash cows they have become. They will turn their backs on expensive and painful surgery and hormones and just say I'm a man and this is how I want to dress, deal with it. It will be free and so much less damaging.

Ditto women and their 'top-surgery' or as it's called in medicine, bilateral mastectomy.

Yes it's really hard to distinguish between transwomen and women. None of that stuff is actually necessary.

Said no-one on either side of the discussion, ever.

Exceptions prove the rule of course.
The occasional transwoman may fool the occasional woman,
On occasion a woman may be mistaken for a man by the odd woman.

By and large, it's not hard to distinguish between men and women.

Remember when we all had to wear face masks in public?
It was still easy to see whether someone was a man or a women, no matter what they wore.

Here is more on the hips.

archive.ph/u4oSa