The vast majority of people can identify other people's sex; so why the pretence that men are women?

[NewLightbulbs]

Just this, really.

The vast majority of people can identify other people's sex very quickly; it's bloody obvious. So why the pretence that men are women, and we will threaten you if you don't play along?

Is that really being kind? Or is it bludgeoning with threats of job loss, assault, doxing, rape, death?

For correctly observing that a man is a man?

Is there any sanity at all in this state of affairs?

Quite. We're supposed to believe that loads of "women" are using our spaces and being called a she etc, all the while having a penis but no one can tell.

It's a myth. It's all part of the ideological belief system.

"You can't tell" is gender ideology belief number 3.

The most convincing cases of "you can't tell" are in transmen, but only really on screen. In real life TM are very feminine and short compared to men. In TW it's usually obvious what sex they are.

Everyone knows and everyone must play the game or else.

Not always

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4665955-cis-woman-harassed-in-womens-bathroom-by-a-gender-critical-woman-who-thinks-she-is-trans-she-is-upset-by-the-experience

This is the inverse of what is under discussion, which is women's ability to correctly identify males who are trying to present as women.
The fact that a woman was apparently mis-identified as a male is a different issue.
Incidentally there has been much comment about that video, especially regarding the sobriety or otherwise of the woman calling out the other woman, plus its poor quality and lack of images...

I thought that video had been debunked as fake. It certainly came across as a badly acted, badly scripted college piece for media studies. Any faces or names yet?

It's so insidious. We're being asked to ignore our basic instincts that we rely on for safety. I'm not colluding in a sinister lie.

I am honestly amazed anyone thinks that video isn't a sham. Poorly scripted and acted. It's also a deflection, but ok. Even though I know it's a lie because lone women don't challenge (because men are at their most dangerous when women say no, and in an enclosed space to boot), if men weren't making womens facilities unsafe, women wouldn't feel the need to challenge gnc women.

There's a lot to be said for who is doing the observing. I think the vast majority of people know, but maybe men less so? It isn't an important survival instinct for men, plus they are more like to judge based on basic qualities like hair length or breasts.

Women take in scent, gait, feet, hands, shoulders, hip to waist ratio, jawline, browbone, and hairlines, almost instantly, all of which are such a giveaway. The idea that untold numbers of men are passing would be laughable if it wasn't such insidious bullshit.

We've just passed the 8 billion mark for the number of humans alive right now so the bleating that you can't always tell doesn't work in the slightest. If some people want to pretend to be stupid call them out on it or (better yet imo) laugh at them. Don't indulge it. Everyone knows the difference.

I suppose what's going on depends on whether a trans person is projecting their self-image outwardly or projecting it inwardly. Is it to convince others or does that not matter because the performance is for the performer's benefit?

They treat us like we are stupid and I find that insulting.

I don't think the idea is that you can't tell. It's that you're meant to think that the idea that "man" and "woman" relate to sex is outdated and wrong, because they now mean "Which set of societally determined gender stereotypes do you feel suit you best".

Which obviously is far more important to determine in sports, relationships and places where people are vulnerable, than silly old biological sex.

Yes. I mean obviously a set of stereotypes and roles which arose for some mysterious reason are more important than the completely unrelated inconsequential fact that humans are one of two reproductive, dimorphic types.

Top tip, people can tell you what they want you to think, but they can’t actually stop you thinking whatever you like. You can behave in whatever way and say whatever you like but must take the consequences. Simply stating that you are female and “everyone” thinks you are doesn’t make it true. Simply stating that all the good people don’t mind you being in single sex place’s despite being the opposite sex doesn’t make it true.

Blokes are blokes.

Lasses are lasses.

Everyone knows the difference.

I don't think it's kind at all. It reinforces the ides that your identity is restricted by your body. Although gender ideologues attack GC people for restricting people's identity, they can't or won't see that it is them that has tied body to identity. They are the restrictive ones. Yes we can spot a man a mile off in most cases but that is only threatening if they make it so.

Exactly. In real life you can tell, especially trans women. IMO trans men tend to look like an old fashioned stereo-typical lesbian, probably because many are lesbians.

It's in the gait, the skeletal mass and the general 'presence' which is why I can put on my sons clothes, get my hair cut short, wear no make-up and still no-one would be in any doubt I am a woman despite being 5ft 10 tall and what used to be referred to as a 'boyish frame'.

A man however can put on all the make up, dresses, heels etc and will still walk like a man and have a mans skeletal shape and presence.

You can't fight nature and expect to win.

Not always

You didn't come back to that thread after you plopped it down, did you?

Although I presume you might have received an email from MNHQ when they changed the offensive wording of the title.

And why the pretence that people who identify as non binary are anything other than male or female?

Thinking of all the women and girls across the world who don’t have the luxury of opting out of their sex based oppression.

One of the interesting things about becoming partially sighted is that I do pay attention more to my other senses than I used to.

You can't just see that men are not women when they are all dressed up (whether they are one of the tiny minority who have had surgery or not), but you can smell that they are men.

When a man uses a toilet, it smells like a man has used it, when a man walks past, (even drenched in perfume) he still smells like a man wearing a feminine aftershave rather than a woman.

It's not just the physical body & the brain, it's body chemistry too.
Even the blind can tell the difference between anyone born a man or a woman.

No matter how stocky & male in appearance some women might be at a casual glance, they still don't smell like men even if they wear aftershave.

I think it's far more than our eyes that tell us which sex someone is & there is absolutely nothing you can do about that to change it.

It is also not kind to allow a male to believe that they 'pass' when they actually don't.

And it is absolute bollocks that males have been using female single sex spaces undetected for 'decades'. They may have been in there, but they were not undetected.

One of the interesting things about becoming partially sighted is that I do pay attention more to my other senses than I used to.

yes. My eyesight is becoming worse each year and I know see a blob in the distance without my glasses on and that blob has just enough detail for my brain to assess whether it is a male or female coming. From the gait and other cues that have nothing to do with what is being worn or make up or hair.

And then now as they get close enough, it is the proportions of the facial features, hands and feet.

That's a good point @Brokendaughter and something that didn't really register before but yes, men do really smell different to women. It's something so obvious, like the sky being blue, that I've never thought about it before.

My son definitely has a manly smell he didn't have as a young teen where as his sisters have no discernible smell (not to me anyway...maybe they do to men and men can't smell the manly smell, that would make sense from an evolutionary perspective).