Here we go again! Brighton Police want to interview KJK about a hate crime.

[ScreamingMeMe]

I suspect this may be one of the core issues.

And as women are now hardening their stance, the group is having to maintain those allegiances and are becoming detached.

And that is fine. But it is this bullying and dishonesty around how they are doing it that needs to be pointed out.

I agree this is not really a derail because it is an adjacent issue that goes some way to describe the culture between the feminists and the extreme TRA groups there.

And anyone who is saying ‘KJK has caused a breakdown in relationships’ would be ignoring the mess that was that Brighton event a couple of years ago. If there was an ‘improvement’ in relations at all, then you wouldn’t have had Carly May Kavanaugh, a Labour Party staffer, screaming at a baby.

So, no. I suspect there is another disconnect between those ‘sensitive’ discussions and the reality of the groups screaming at women in Brighton. And ‘progress’ was not real and tangible at all.

WPUK are first and foremost a left wing political organisation

maintaining and building alliances with key left wing and trade union players is ultimately more important to them than protecting women’s rights. That’s the truth of it, and where all this ‘pipe down domesticated zombies, we identify as your representatives and we’ll handle this’ stuff comes from

same dynamic we saw with the Women’s Equality Party (remember them!) with Catherine Mayer setting herself up as lifetime president so none of the lessers could ever ruin her things

Who said on here, not that long ago, quite plainly, that they believed the size of a woman's breasts dictated her social cachet amongst her peers. That big bosoms meant you were higher up in your social hierarchy.

I mean, for the love of God, if women are claiming to fight transactivism, the first thing they should do is understand what drives it.

This is why Posie's 'porn soaked men' resonates with many women. She's not frightened of offending anyone.

maintaining and building alliances with key left wing and trade union players is ultimately more important to them than protecting women’s rights. That’s the truth of it, and where all this ‘pipe down domesticated zombies, we identify as your representatives and we’ll handle this’ stuff comes from

yes. And their allegiance to the party stymies their efforts. Which it doesn't for KJK. So, why don't they just leave it to her?

I suspect it's because she's so popular. They would like to harness some of that support.

If Sarah's case is as important as you say, then you should have found better ways to advertise her crowdfund and not antagonise women who may have been inclined to support her?

You can't go around accusing women of all manner of things, but suddenly decide they are good enough to tap for their money.

There was a woman at the Cardiff Let Woman speak event who promoted the Sex Matters Petition, even though Maya Forstater and Helen Joyce weren't there.

Don't pin your lack of effort unto other women, own your mistakes in failing to maximise an opportunity to promote Sarah's crowdfunder yourself, because you had personal feelings of ill will towards KJK and didn't turn up.

Yes, you cant go round platforming AGPs and trying to appease transactivists and then shout about Posie's 'guilt by association'.

And it it totally valid to critique that approach taken by WPUK.

WPUK have not turned around and said STFU what the hell are you trying to achieve by criticising us. If WPUK insisted women must never question the campaigning tactics of other women, then that would be problematic right? But WPUK are not doing that.

And as women are now hardening their stance, the group is having to maintain those allegiances and are becoming detached

As I said earlier, one of the main reasons women have hardened their stance is because KJK's strategy of enabling the TRAs to show us exactly who they are, has been so successful.

This must be particularly problematic for the "reasonable transexual" contingent whose goal has always been to portray extreme genderism as a Stonewall fuelled aberration, and that things could be taken back to the days of the reasonable compromise.

KJK's work shows us that extreme genderism is now entirely mainstream amongst TRAs and that it is absolutely fuelled by misogyny. It must be intensely frustrating both for those who consider themselves the transexual elder state ladies and their female "gender critical" friends.

I'm reminded of Steph's Place trying to conduct a genteel protest outside FILIA in Southampton and then being undermined when the TRA youngsters turned up and started inviting us to suck their dicks.

It all begins to highlight the fact that some "gender critical" activism is closer to being moderate TRA than it is to being women's rights activism.

WPUK have not turned around and said STFU what the hell are you trying to achieve by criticising us

I blocked your mate Hanover Hussy on twitter for aggressively doing exactly that 😂😂

Your answer to their hypocrisy is saying at least they don't say you can't criticise people?

Because they'd bloody struggle to say that, wouldn't they!

They criticise KJK up the bloody wazoo, but you're finding some virtue in the fact that at least they don't proclaim that you're not supposed to criticise people?? 😁

lol.

One of the intersecting members of the three groups.

It all begins to highlight the fact that some "gender critical" activism is closer to being moderate TRA than it is to being women's rights activism.

This.

You can't be gender critical, and then support men wearing women's clothes and claiming they're women, however benign and non confrontational they are.

If Sarah's case is as important as you say, then you should have found better ways to advertise her crowdfund and not antagonise women who may have been inclined to support her?

This.

And another person who has had a similar attitude to my criticisms Sappho is your other mate, Karen Ingala Smith, also part of WPUK!

KJK’s event had little to do with Sarah’s case. Correct me if I’m wrong but AFAIK nobody who took the mic mentioned the case or anything to do with the law surrounding single sex spaces. Sarah herself would not have been able to speak because her anonymity has been court ordered.

But you said upthread that Brighton Feminists (who presumably include Sarah) wouldn’t have wanted her case or any of their issues mentioned at the event because of being tarnished by association….

I’ve been roundly abused by Hanover Hussy on social media in the past for associating with the wrong people. I’m actively involved with a lot of groups in various ways but WPUK isn’t one of them.

I live in Brighton and I'm a feminist. I support Sarah, I support Julie Bindel, I support Helen Joyce and I support KJK. In short, I support any woman who stands up for women.

I attended the event in Brighton. It was a great day. I heard loads of fantastic women telling their stories. I hope KJK comes to Brighton again. She's very welcome as far as I'm concerned

Trans widows have always posed an inconvenient truth to the ‘old school, reasonable transsexual’ lobby and the women who’ve bought into that

men who think clothing, makeup and a certain mindset make you a woman are massively chauvinist and no friend to women, full stop, the end, and trans widows have lived through it and know it in their bones

being a massive chauvinist isn’t illegal or anything. I work with plenty of them and I get along fine. But I don’t expect them to give me good advice about campaigning for women’s rights

This is typical TRA logic and demand - wanting it both ways.

Highlight the causes/campaigns in Brighton for us, oh no don't speak about the causes/campaigns in Brighton because we don't want them to be associated with you so we'll do a fuckoffPosie hashtag.

We certainly won't be turning up to do it ourselves we don't mix with your sort but we'll carp on the side lines instead but do keep giving money to our causes and campaigns won't you.

All of this and on top kjk might get arrested.

Thank you Weary.

There is room for all. There is a need for all. And some of that Brighton Feminist group say that. They also say, we are just defining our boundaries.

And boundaries are good and to be respected.

The issue really is the hypocrisy and dishonesty in some of the things they support (while then calling other feminists 'racist' or 'homophobic' and other things) while declaring them the 'actual' feminists.

And the hypocritical bullying they seek to hide or deny.

WPUK have not turned around and said STFU what the hell are you trying to achieve by criticising us

Their ardent supporters absolutely do do this. When even fairly gentle criticism is made in generalist GC groups, women get asked "and what have you done for the cause?" or told to "set up your own org then".

And then they were all furious when some women set up the Repeal the GRA website because those women didn't ask permission

Hang on... this thread is moving a bit too fast for me but I thought Sappho went to the Brighton event? Didn't you say on one of the post Brighton threads Sappho, that you were there? And if so could presumably have spoken about Sarah's case had you so wished, in whatever way you wished?. Apologies if I'm mistaken.

While I'm here I would just like to make it clear that Sarah has my full support and my best wishes. Bizarre that I feel the need to say that on this board but here we are.

But on the facebook page and sin page they're not criticising what Standing for women does and their tactics, they're criticising (bullying) KJK, it's very personal and it's not the first time. And in some cases their desperate over-reach (e.g. the politics of KJs security - really? It's like a kid in reception desperately trying to find some mud to stick) is making women less safe. The women who turned up to KJ's rallies in the US were at risk - why the security was necessary. Women in this country who tried to tie these events - which were open mic - to the right wing were making those risks worse. Because of a personal vendetta.

I've read one of the women who turned up to KJ's rallies has received death threats against her and her family on her car and pasted to her front door.

IIRC correctly - please do correct me if I'm wrong women of FWR with better memories - Lisa Muggeridge was an important voice and right on so much - including the safeguarding loopholes being created by Gender Identity. She was bullied relentlessly including by feminists and she disappeared from public discourse on gender ideology as a result.

I remember the bullying of Lisa on here, and it was dreadful and very personal and completely unwarranted as far as I could see. Personal bullying of women is noticed and it is right that we call it out. Not everyone is as brave and strong as KJK and even though she can cope with it, it's still not ok.

Honestly, I don't think the people doing this are that relevant to the movement to protect women and children's rights any more.

There are plenty of brilliant leaders in this movement who don't make personal attacks - Maya, Allison, Helen Joyce, KJK. We don't need this level of vitriol.