Here we go again! Brighton Police want to interview KJK about a hate crime.

[ScreamingMeMe]

WPUK behaved abominably to KJK when they publicly dropped her from the Cornwall event. I reserve the right to bash them whenever I feel like it

Agreed.

Have you read the thread the Elephant in the Room? Not worth going over the links exposed on that thread on this one. www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4662757-womens-place-uk-filia-event-the-elephant-ignored-yet-again?page=27&reply=121163378

And unfortunately as with most other areas of society it is the hidden networks that are having the biggest impact.

And it is worth being aware of them, rather than accepting the curated "feminism" that some women decide it is all we need to know about.

And again from other threads AGCL is Actual Gender Critical Left and Birghton Women's Liberation Collective.

It would help threads not being repetitive if there was some way the FWR could have an indexing system rather than having to repeat areas of shared information already published.

The FiLiA and WPUK inclusion presumably harks back to the FiLiA conference WPUK session, comments made therein, prior and subsequent postings on SM by members of WPUK.

I was at one time hopeful that certain women's groups and certain feminists would hear and take on board the message that very many women who are wholly against Gender Ideology, all for Women's Rights and safeguarding of children, keen to support causes and campaigns are sick and tired of this speech and action monitoring, intellectually sneery, holier than thou attitude displayed towards them and stop doing it - I am no longer hopeful at all.

If we are going to play the silly 'associated with' game then those groups and feminists with that attitude are the ones I have no wish to be associated with, nor do I feel any desire to give up my time, voice or money to their causes.

I cancelled my monthly financial support, last month. My final straw was what was "alluded to" 🙄 in their session at FiLiA

Agreed.

I don't blame FiLiA for what was said during the WPUK session, though, with a WPUK panel and questions from the floor FiLiA can't be held responsible.

I am just watching the online launch webinar of Defending Women's Spaces by the amazing Karen Ingala Smith and it's really jarring to read comments that WPUK deserves a bashing.

Imagine if someone posted that they reserved the right to bash KJK

Odd language to direct at women working in the male violence against women sector.

No, neither do I. However, I don't take any women's/feminist group at face value anymore, nor any of the requests for time/money/support.

It's a shame but it's not women like you or I who have caused this chasm or shift Feministwoman.

Sappho when you've been using the word 'bashing' yourself that comes across as a tad disingenuous.

women working in the male violence against women sector.

try again

I reserve the right to bash WPUK as an entity. they acted as an anonymous entity when they threw KJK under the bus, so that's how I treat them

I don't blame FiLiA for what was said during the WPUK session, though, with a WPUK panel and questions from the floor FiLiA can't be held responsible.

The point is FiLia decides who has a voice at the conference, and consistently refuses a space to women who for instance want to hold session more similar to LWS. ie none of this hierarchical nonsense of a platform while the majority sit is silense. And given their absurd assertion that they are part of restarting Women's Liberation and even worse insult as no WLM conference ever had a structure where a small group decided the content.

And it isn't about "bashing" its about realising not everything is as it seems.

eg referencing the WPUK book launch, this is a promotion for an individual woman who is one of the directors of WPUK talk about nepotism. Apart from which is in a well paid job in the women's sector. This need to pick out inviduals and turn them into idols is apolitical and counter productive. I am not saying working in women's aid isn't a difficult job but many of the CEs are very well paid.

So no one inidivual should be singled out like this as though hundreds of other women weren't also doing this.

Of much more concern is that women working in the VAW sector are able to get together to write a joint statement on the police, but have never ever got together to write a join statement on the need for women only services.

Lets deal with reality. Not some teenage fanzine notion of the world.

Um, I've been to a few Filia conferences and what characterises them are the range of big names like Julie Bindel, Pragna Patel, Maya Forester, Helen Joyce alongside loads of smaller, some tiny, very specific interest groups.

And all the work Filia does in the area where it's going to be held in for the year before the conference. One of the most unpleasant outcomes of the TRAs in Portsmouth was that the council was persuaded to cut the promised funding to local groups supporting women and girls.

I don't think KJK would want a platform at Filia, would she anyway? She is very clear that she doesn't work with other groups and isn't a feminist, and holding meetings inside doesn't really seem to be her thing.

I think you were the first one to coin "bashing" a few posts down.

This was the post I was talking about. Jarring.

WPUK is a collective organisation, of whom various members and affiliates, Ruth Serwotka, Hanover Hussy, JCJ, Bindel, etc. seem to have directed significant amounts of time, energy and resources to "bashing" and undermining Posie (an individual), so I hope you've been finding ALL of that jarring, and not just your carefully selective, disingenuous outrage, @SapphosRock

You were the one who introduced this language, Sapphos. Others just responded on your terms.

As su.ggest,ed by @pattihews , I googled Kitten Pinder.
My goodness me.
I'd forgotten her appearance in Big Brother way back when
m.youtube.com/watch?v=ElyRYVfjCCc
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kitten-i-was-cheap-hooker-at-16-1599570
www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/kitten-s-sex-fantasy-7280865.html

A massive attention-seeking liar back then and appears not to have changed, even though she's now a 42 year old woman.

The autIsm and catatonic meltdowns seems to be new though

Odd, isn't it, how the 'friends', whom one might hope would de-escalate the situation and calm things down, dance around shouting and accusing and generally making the whole difficult situation into a disaster.

what is it about pointing out the WPUK behaved abominably towards KJK and I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen and they're the golden girls that you find jarring?

or are you doing some fucking stupid picking up on the word 'bashing'?

Another bizarre take.

Because of that session at Filia, we now have looked at who is on the WPUK leadership group and, no doubt you will not be surprised, but several names in that group are writing some pretty fucked up prejudiced posts on that Actual Gender Critical Left Facebook group. And I expect you that the author of the KJK sin page is one of those names of people who spoke at that WPUK session.

I think it is again very dishonest to try to deflect attention from the reality.

The reality is there is a cross over between WPUK, the sin page and the posts on AGCL.

Do you deny this sappho?

In which case, I wonder at your 'chiding' tone. I consider it pretty tone deaf when the connections between the three groups are considered.

I have dipped in and out of these threads for a while. I have followed the arguments with interest.

So I have a broad understanding of KLK's take on the trans debate.

The bit I don't understand is the general understanding that she isn't a feminist.

I am not being disingenuous here. I'm not trying to make a clever gotcha point later. I genuinely don't know what makes her not a feminist. What has she said that is anti!-feminism?

She said that she isn't a feminist.

Thanks for the links.

I watched the video posted earlier all the while thinking I'm sure I know her face whilst simultaneously thinking that of course I couldn't as it was just some random person.

Then I clicked on the first link in your post and memories of that series of big brother came flooding back.

She was sooooo annoying and obnoxious that I very much doubt that she's had much of a personality change in the intervening years.

Puts a whole different slant on what looks to have happened at FiLia and what actually probably happened.

She was told that doing such and such wasn't feminist, or being like this wasn't feminist, and she got so fucked off with the whole purity spiral, that she decided to say well in that case I'm not a feminist, I'm a women's rights activist.

Little did she know that would also be called a racist, an Islamophobe, homophobic, far right and all sorts of other things.

If you watch the video linked up thread where she talks about Mumsnet, she explains it in that.

Regardless of how she describes herself though, she is doing feminism.