Here we go again! Brighton Police want to interview KJK about a hate crime.

[ScreamingMeMe]

The Brighton Baby Shouter was so lovely to try to build links and bridges between the attendees. Awwwwww. Not divisive, or bitter or indeed horrid.

Has this now crossed into some serious gaslighting territory?

This thread does make me fucking glad I’m not involved in the ‘mainstream’ Brighton feminist scene. It sounds like it’s full of toxic control freaks who just want ordinary women to shut up (but hand over money and time when required), and let their betters get on with negotiating with the gender loons on their behalf

And this is the fault of the people doing it and can’t be laid at KJK’s door in any way…?

I’m pretty sure you meant to say that, right?

Yes. Exactly. She's exhorting men to make a protest. To show up the insanity of it. That armed men can absolutely bloody walk into women's toilets. With guns. Because they 'carry', and can 'identify as women'.

to turn round and claim that she wants armed men in women's toilets on any kind of basis other than to show up the ideology, is ridiculous.

it's the same thing as Man Friday. Women identifying as men and walking into men's spaces, to make them understand, to show it up. No woman who is against this ideology actually thinks that men should give up their toilets.

Please stop blaming women speaking for this Sappho.

I think you are quite aware enough of feminism to realise this is bollocks. It is purely the responsibility of those who cannot act in a civilised way.

And that's the fault of the people who write the mail and make the protests. It's got fuck all to do with KJK.

again, how is KJK exposing the violence of tranceactivism in America, responsible for any of that?

Yes you are quite right. Women are allowed to protest transactivism, but not enough to upset certain trans people??

I mean that is what I'm hearing, right?

Quite right, none of this is KJK's fault, it's just an unfortunate consequence of her rally.

I have really tried to labour the point that I am not criticising or blaming her, I'm obviously doing a crap job of it 🙈

Yes. It is like on the fb page. The women remonstrating the poster who was blunt about gay men exploiting women for surrogacy were trying just this tactic. It was 'of course we are against surrogacy.... but don't say 'those' words because then the men will be hurt. And we will call you homophobic. But... yes ... of course we are against surrogacy....'

It is a pattern.

And it is discordant, lacks honesty and seems all too performative.

The consequence of her event has been massively toxic for relations between women and the trans community - and between SFW supporters and local feminists. It's been divisive, bitter and horrid. The divide is so big that some women who support KJK are now even refusing to support local women's rights campaigns. That's how it's affecting me.

If women now don't want to support the Brighton feminists' campaigns, I'm afraid you've brought it on yourself. Why would anyone want to join a club that thinks it's OK to publish sin lists if you step out of line? Why should they trust you?
This group has shown itself up and is now flailing and trying to blame anyone else rather than look at themselves.

Quite right, none of this is KJK's fault, it's just an unfortunate consequence of her rally.

okay, I still don't get it, please spell it out to me. What are the exact steps that lead from those rallies to the effect you're saying is happening in Brighton.

The consequence of her event has been massively toxic for relations between women and the trans community

And?

Oh right, so it's about upsetting the appeasement apple-cart?

A bit late but hectic day.

@Feministwoman see @DrLouiseMoody and @ItsAllGoingToBeFine

@pattihews I think even if the video was edited, even if some of the women were thrown out of Lesbian Labour (that sounds like an honour to me!) even if the woman concerned was a bit in your face, the fact was that the advertised all women security didn't happen. And men were bought it to throw her out even thought she had a valid ticket.

Some not very nice people can still be ill treated by those who are abusing their position. Attempting to smear someone implies that because they are a bad person they can be unfairly, and in this incident, violently treated.

Moreover, even if there was a bit wrong on both sides, FiLia as the organisers and employers of the women security team, could have just done (which any professional group would have done) is say sorry for any mix up and hope your haven't been too traumatised.

I suspect part of this is to protect the credibility of the security team who were employed this year. Shame that a similar incident happened although men weren't bought in.

And the actual question still remains, are the FiLia Trustees using money donated to facilitate women with less money to attend, to pay their legal costs.

It’s always, always easier to blame the victim innit? You don’t want to go up against someone with power, that could go badly for you

Yes. You are doing a crap job of it.

why do you think that is? You seem to ignore us all pointing out the inconsistencies in what you say and how it is coming across as maybe dishonest or at the very least trying to sit on a fence by some kind of sleight of hand use of the words criticism and disagreeing.

So please can you annunciate whose fault it is for us dummies at the back?

Sapphos, is it this?

10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

I'd imagine the whole thing has made it quite socially awkward in Brighton for those feminists with TRA friends /relations/ spouses but again, not KJK's fault.

Q: If the Brighton trans community get upset when women speak up for themselves and reject gender ideology, whose fault it their upset?

Q: If some women in Brighton do not like the bullying behaviour of other women in Brighton, such that the former won't support the latter any more, whose fault is it that that support has been withdrawn.

Q: If your answer to the above is not KJK, then why do you keep bringing her up as the causation?

The consequence of her event has been massively toxic for relations between women and the trans community - and between SFW supporters and local feminists. It's been divisive, bitter and horrid. The divide is so big that some women who support KJK are now even refusing to support local women's rights campaigns. That's how it's affecting me.

I do think KJK's events do have a knock on effect in all manner of unlikely ways. I've experienced this via the organisation that my DH is a member of which basically split after a KJK event. I think this is why her events are so great. They get people talking; being braver IRL; give people courage to dig their heels in and be awkward; lots of small acts of rebellion. This means that things are starting to change and it can be a positive thing if it means people are starting to be more honest and braver about what they really think.

I also want to point out that the presence of the Heart of Oaks people was jumped on AFTER the event as a retrospective reason to not attend by the Brighton Feminists. Just another dishonest tactic.

Brighton Feminists released the statement and the link to the sin page BEFORE the event and then clamoured onto the Heart of Oaks presence as some kind of life raft to justify their actions.

@MsMcWibble Thank you, I will.

yep.

And that was how the surrogacy discussion on that fb page went too.

And to be honest, it seems to be how the Brighton Feminists want to make the potential exploitation for egg donation work too. The worst thing about using donor eggs that may not have been donated enthusiastically and with absolutely no coercion (including withholding of family relationships) is that it makes the person using them for their own children look bad. Hence the distraction with 'sperm donor' being deployed.

Touché Datun. Fair point.