Here we go again! Brighton Police want to interview KJK about a hate crime.

[ScreamingMeMe]

@DrLouiseJMoody , can you post a link to the video that shows this happening at FiLiA , please? Thanks.

I'm struggling to see how Julie Bindel, despite writing some horrible stuff about mothers, including her own mother, and children gets a free pass, but K-J, who might have some issues with donor and assisted conception (which is a perfectly logical pro-woman and pro-child stance to take, whether one agrees with her or not) doesn't.

Is it merely because JB has 'better feminist credentials' and K-J is just a gobby upstart who knows shit about shit? Because that's pure elitist bollocks.

There is also a link in video comments to a very detailed Google doc giving one side of the story.

Everyone is free to disagree with Julie Bindel as they please, not attend her events, not donate to her crowd funder and yes even to criticise her. She has a high profile and some controversial views, it is to be expected.

Re the donor conception, she says she is totally opposed to donor conception immediately after speaking about gay marriage. Of course this means she is opposed to lesbian couples using donor conception to conveive.

She said on the link that she didn’t want a government who was anti-same sex marriage OR anti-same sex couples adopting.

As I said, an extreme bad faith interpretation is that she disagrees with sperm donation.

She says directly after her sentence about donor conception and IVF that ‘I think it is a terrible blight on a woman’s body’.

It takes someone determined to portray what she says in such an extreme bad faith interpretation to take this to mean ‘sperm donor’ conception.

Why would you continue to push this bad faith interpretation?

And again, many acceptable feminists talk about the exploitation of women for their eggs and are now discussing the children of IVF and their mental health needs.

Ignoring these issues is not feminist.

Exploitation of women's bodies

thecritic.co.uk/end-womb-trafficking/

"Pregnancy and babies should not be commercialised, wombs should not be for rent, and women should not be reduced to brood mares. The feminist fix for infertility is not to exploit another woman. No one has the “right” to have their own biological child, and certainly no one has the right to use a woman’s body for their own benefit. If you really want to raise a child, there are countless babies and children in the world, desperate for a home. Now that is true altruism."

Says Julie Bindel.

I await the cancelling.

I await the sin page.

Because what Julie Bindel says here is in line with what KJK said in the two sentences she said on that one video that Brighton Feminists have monstered her for.

Egg donor conception has the potential to cause ever lasting harm to a female in the harvesting of those 'eggs'.

And IVF is a part of this discussion. Because a surrogate is impregnated via IVF usually. AND if a woman is using IVF for her own pregnancy, she is potentially causing her body irreparable harm. But at least then, it is her own decision and her own body and quite likely her own egg.

It doesn't cover the child's needs for their own mental health needs that are becoming very commonly discussed (unless you are determined to ignore those discussions).

Addressing the 'racist' remarks

archive.ph/JNe0D

"What I also discovered was that the police and social services appeared to be scared of intervening in these particular grooming gangs, because a large number of the men involved were of Pakistani Muslim origin. The professionals who were turning a blind eye did not want to be labelled as racist, and did not understand that all they had to do was make it clear that the majority of child sexual abusers and pimps in the UK are white men, and that they were abusing children because they were child abusers, not because they were from a particular ethnicity or religion."

and

www.tandfonline.com/eprint/gPwSDs5c5nWujWtMVYwn/full

"In response to coverage of a series of cases, journalists have been accused by academics, policymakers and rival media organizations of fixating on perpetrators’ ethnicity and creating distorted, racist media frames."

But Julie Bindel is certainly up for a monstering page to set up.

Obviously, I agree with you yarn

Ta.

It's the hypocrisy that's doing my head in. K-J gets monstered for saying the same stuff 'esteemed' feminists say. There's no logic in it at all.

It wasn't said in isolation though was it. KJK also said women who believe they are men should be sterilised.

Not a criticism, she is entitled to her views.

And there are plenty of threads from women on here defending her, she didn't mean it, she was goaded. Which is also fine.

Some feminists chose to distance themselves from KJK on the back of those comments and explained why. I don't know why that is such a problem.

It wasn't said in isolation though was it. KJK also said women who believe they are men should be sterilised.

Was that the exact phrase?

So, now the goal posts are moving and we are discussing sterilisation of females who identify out of being a woman, and not addressing the other issues.

Incidentally, what is the difference between criticism and disagreement in your mind? Because I am very much feeling this is dishonest move and that by denying that pointing out where you disagree is a criticism you can keep yourself pure in some way....

What is the difference please?

Pretty much

So everyone who has been banned from a social media platform is beyond the pale, Sappho? Nice trick, which has been used to damn countless people now.
Lots of people have been banned from Mumsnet. I think that they are often unfair. You want to make the moderators here arbiters of what it right and wrong? Sorry mods, I don't hand over my critical thinking to you.
I have responded to you before. Please stop setting yourself up as the voice of Brighton feminists. You are not.

Crikey, how far from the thread topic this convo has moved.

Why are we being discouraged from discussing police over-reach, bullyboy tactics and the police force being used as a private attack service? Why is the laser focussed on perceived wrongdoings or wrongthought by Posie and Julie and other wims? In whose interest is it to keep us arguing so we don't actually start mobilising?

Just askin'.

Exactly, TinFoil. Rather than asking what good Posie did in Brighton and then ignoring the responses, it might be useful to ask what good this witch hunt is doing for women more generally.
I begin to wonder if that is even the aim.

Where is the rest of that? Where is the actual conversation? The tweets that came first? Isolating a tweet like that and not including the rest of the thread deliberately eliminates context.

Where's the rest of it??

Yup.

I am a lurker and joined to say this:

I live in Brighton and, being for women's rights, want to do more than the solitary stuff that I do (signing things, contributing to crowdfunders, writing letters, emailing an MP that doesn't listen).sometimes I consider joining local groups, but see this kind of snarking. I don't know about the background, I'm not sure I really care. But I want to know that the money, time and energy I spend on these things goes for something. So I end up working on my own, feeling a bit isolated and sure that what good I can do is dissipated by not being part of something bigger.

and who wins, in the end, if that happens?

More disingenuous crap from @SapphosRock The sterilisation point is taken completely out of context. She was making the point - as many of us have - that if transmen hate womanhood and their female bodies so much, why do they do the most female centric thing - have babies - and then insist on changing the terminology around pregnancy, birth-giving, motherhood and post natal care of the child in order to validate their identities as men; and in the process, erase women as the sex that do all of these things and are the only ones capable of doing these things.

Feel free to DM. I am part of a larger group which concentrates on getting things done. You are welcome to join but we obvious have to vet for our own security. Don't be disheartened. You are not alone.

Google it Datun. I am sure it can all be explained away, like the Muslim rape culture comments and the suggestion that men with guns should use women's toilets.

The anti purity spiral energy has always been strong for KJK.

That isn't a criticism of KJK, but it is for some of the posters on here. I find it fascinating that every other woman and feminist is open to scrutiny and critique but it won't be tolerated when it comes to KJK.

Perhaps we should all get back to the subject of the thread then, which is about a woman being arrested, for, as far as any one can ascertain, nothing.
Unless you think she should have been arrested for these opinions that you don't like? Which in particular?

The point is... that for all the things that people don't agree with Julie Bindel on, no group of feminists I know of have set up a page using the worst interpretations of her words and then accused her of things that in reality, are pretty mainstream feminist opinions.

Do you know of any feminist group that started a hashtag # fuckoffjulie?

I think readers by now can see the hypocritical stance that your group has taken. And the pretzeling logic, the snipping of clips and statements to remove any context which would explain that is being applied to justify that hypocritical stance.

Such as taking ONE single sentence AFTER she has just stated clearly she supports single sex couples marrying and adopting and twisted it absurdly to include an act that is almost laughable in desperation to "pin a sin on the posie" and call her 'homophobic'. Taking her sentence to absurdly dishonest interpretation.

All the while, Julie Bindel is saying pretty much the same thing.... and no one says a fucking thing.

The fear of stepping out of line in that group must be immense.

If that (or most of the preceding) isn't actually criticism, I'd love to see your posts when you really disapprove of someone, SapphosRock..

It does seem likely that there is some missing context around this screenshot. KJK is someone who spends all her time campaigning to prevent the sterilisation of actual children who “identify” out of their sex class and specifically young girls who “identify” as boys. If she really thought women who identify as men should be sterilised, why wouldn’t she just join up with the trans activists and start campaigning for puberty blockers and a hefty dose of testosterone to be given to all “trans” female people as early as possible. Job done.