Here we go again! Brighton Police want to interview KJK about a hate crime.

[ScreamingMeMe]

A 'woman's place uk' also has a page on Kellie-Jay Keen.

Ruth Sewotka and 'Hanover Hussy' had already put me off WPUK, otherwise I'd be dropping them like a hot stone over this. So unnecessary, spiteful and immature.

Actually I think you're doing an excellent job of explaining it, Helleofabore. As a (mostly) lurker who wasn't aware of this particular set of accusations/slurs this thread and in particular your extremely patient contributions have been extremely instructive. I'm neither a fan or the opposite of KJK, but I'm bloody grateful for her all the same, and I'm fairly sure we've all got better things to do than become the tras attack dogs for them. Thanks for the link too...

I mean, the page is just a collection of links to various women slagging off KJK.

People are entitled to their opinions but anyone who feels this represents them or their politics is not someone I'm going to support. It's just bullying. I don't understand its purpose other than to bitch about a woman and try to undermine her work. It's fucked up. It's exactly the same as what TRAs do to women they want to silence, but it's kind of worse because you claim to care about women.

Oh sorry sapphos, maybe it wasn't you. I have to admit I find the criticisms of KJK so incomprehensibly all consuming to the people who voice them, they tend to merge.

So does that mean you don't criticise KJK for her perceived political allegiances?

I think WPUK has done an excellent job of putting the position forward, much better than I have:

United front?
A broad movement like the current movement for women’s rights is made up of groups from across the political spectrum. We do not have to agree with each other on everything. Many of us have pushed differences aside so that we could come together in defence of women’s sex-based rights.
Such a united front has been vital in building a coalition that fully represents women in the UK, and which is now gaining serious traction.
We have always been very clear that, for us, women’s liberation cannot be won by aligning with reactionary or oppressive groups or individuals who would deny women our rights and increase division and injustice.
It is on this basis that we organise, and on this basis that we campaign.
We do not impose this stance on other women. Everyone is free to work with whom they choose and to create their own political alliances. We acknowledge that Kellie-Jay Keen’s platform is very attractive to many women. We support the rights to peaceful assembly and protest, and unequivocally condemn the harassment and intimidation of women meeting to exercise these rights.

womansplaceuk.org/2022/06/22/womans-place-and-posie-parker/

Same here.

@beastlyslumber I was briefly excited to find some GC feminists but was put off by that page. Really disappointing.

Datun - as I said yesterday I have no criticisms of KJK.

Thanks Gina and Bella.

I am in a position of being very careful not to accuse Sappho of things that she doesn’t believe. And to make sure my accusations are fair and directed accurately while being sensitive enough to Sappho.

But as long as other can see what I am pointing out then I am ok with what I have said.

I also understand when people have disconnections between reality and what they want to believe is true. There are many reasons for that and not always obvious.

Stating that you have no criticisms of KJK is a rather ambiguous statement, in light of all your criticisms of KJK.

Considering you've been a regular contributor to umpteen threads in recent years, criticising her, you're going to need to clarify what it is you've now decided that you were wrong about.

Well okay fair point Datun.

I have no criticisms of her of a person.

I disagree with some of the things she has said and done but these aren't criticisms.

I think her campaign tactics should be open to scrutiny but these aren't criticisms.

Praise where praise is due she is an effective campaigner.

Not all feminists in Brighton. They do not speak for me.
You are welcome to share your opinions. Other people are sharing theirs back.
What is unwelcome is the constant insistence that others share your view. You could not be more like TRAs if you tried. The same refusal to take NO for an answer.
I will not join in a witch hunt against an individual. I will listen to, and make alliances where I like. Other women have said the same. Why won't you accept that?

Praise where praise is due she is an effective campaigner.

A few months ago you called her a liability! But, if you've had a change of opinion, then fair enough.

The Brighton 'sin' page and the AGCL page are both versions of 'do it to Julia'. They're using K-JK as a boogeywoman, as BadTerf against their GoodTerf. These are political acts, no different to people in oppressive regimes shopping their neighbours to try and keep themselves safe. It won't work, it never does. The TRAs don't care.

If your feminist focus is anti-racism, pro-abortion, pro-assisted conception etc etc then just say that, there's no need to monster another woman. It makes you look petty and insecure.

It's valid to consider the integrity of the person involved though.

We have always been very clear that, for us, women’s liberation cannot be won by aligning with reactionary or oppressive groups or individuals who would deny women our rights and increase division and injustice.

This bit of the WPUK statement is interesting. Who gets to judge what is 'reactionary' and 'oppressive' and what constitutes increasing 'division and injustice' Obviously in this context WPUK decide what this is, but they can be wrong as far as others are concerned.

For example I think it is the most screamingly outrageous example of denying particular women their rights and increasing division and injustice to platform a male person who identifies as a woman. It excludes transwidows. WPUK has done this.

They can have their opinions sure but it often comes across - and does in this statement - that they think they 'know better' than ordinary women. That's just my opinion of course.

Anyway, I love KJK and am wondering if at this point the police will quietly let the matter drop. If Brighton police want Wiltshire police to arrest KJK can Wiltshire police say 'no, saying lesbians don't have penises isn't a crime' (for example hypothetically) and refuse to do it?

Yes this, agree 100%. Great post. There is no need to pick on an individual to outline your firm political views.

We have always been very clear that, for us, women’s liberation cannot be won by aligning with reactionary or oppressive groups or individuals who would deny women our rights and increase division and injustice.

I wonder how WPUK would characterise the UK Labour Party? I think they meet all the criteria of the groups WPUK say they won't align with.

Genuine question, did anyone on this thread donate to Julie Bindel's crowdfunder when she sued Nottingham City Council? It got a great response.

JB is a feminist with integrity but she also does not agree with KJK. Do people feel like they need to pick a side with crowd funding?

I didn't contribute to JB's crowdfunder for many reasons, her disagreement with KJK was not one of them.

To answer your question, I live in Nottingham, know (slightly) the organiser of the Aspley library event and did indeed contribute to Julie Bindel's Crowdfunder. Why is this relevant? Why are you casting about for excuses to make feminists take sides on any issue? There is room in my feminism for Julie Bindel, Kellie-Jay Keen, Sian Louise and any number of other women I have supported or worked with down through forty years of working for Women's Rights.

While we are on WPUK and Labour. I'm not seeing that WPUK have made any/much difference to Labour policy? Am I missing something? Or is it all so hush hush and we don't know about it (nor do Labour members)?

That Starmer is talking about gender questioning children and made the right noises seems more about the wider debate shifting after the interim Cass review was published.

I contributed to Julie Bindel's crowdfunder. And also to Rachel Meade and Jo Phoenix and Raquel Rosario Sanchez and Kathleen Stock and Allison Bailey and Maya Forstater.

I'm fine with Julie not agreeing with KJK. I believed in all the above campaigns. And I respect KJK for what she does.