Here we go again! Brighton Police want to interview KJK about a hate crime.

[ScreamingMeMe]

Regarding crowd funding, I would hope women would contribute to anything they personally believed in. Nobody is under any obligation to donate.

Personally I have never checked anyone's political allegiances before donating to a crowd funder, I support the cause and the end goal.

Now Sappho

We have been through this.

There are 'sins' on that page that are hugely hypocritical because other approved feminists have said the same thing.

That is the point.

Your group has no page up about Julie Bindel and her writings on the same topics.

You know that is the point.

Falling back to this 'moralist' point of view is meaningless in the view of that hypocrisy.

If you want to have a control, somebody could contact "Steph's Place" and see if all of Steph's "organisation" stands by the hate piece that Steph wrote about me. I'm guessing the answer will be yes.

Helleofabore you keep suggesting the 'sin page' should be taken down. Why is this? Why should KJK be immune from critique?

It is much healthier to let all opinions be aired.

Can we see the evidence of somebody saying somebody should be muzzled please?

I think I was very clear Sappho.

If that is what the group thinks, then absolutely leave it up but own that it is a form of bullying when viewed with all the other actions.

If it is not what the group supports, then it should be taken down because it is conveying the values of 'one solitary' woman as the values for the group.

That you don't recognise the bullying nature and the hypocrisy of the 'sins' listed on that page and that even the 'donor conception' point was a bad faith interpretation and not representative of what KJK believes when you consider her other views on that particular topic, well that is for you to square that circle.

I am now talking about the values that the group holds and how they are being represented in the public view.

Why should KJK be immune from critique?

She is not.

It is the bad faith interpretations and the hypocrisy in pointing to her when other 'approved' feminists have made the same points yet those feminists are celebrated.

That is and has always been the issue.

Do you think I have changed direction in my criticism of the page? Because I try to remain pretty honest and open about what I post here.

Do you understand that the group would consider that hypocritical thinking in the way you describe it?

That is it is ok to accept funds from 'problematic' people but it is not ok to allow them to amplify people's voices if they are 'problematic' people to use the Hearts of Oak example. Hearts of Oak did not say anything. They just posted footage that they gained as it was a public event.

Why is it ok to accept funds from problematic people to launch a magazine, or anything, or gained because a problematic person promoted it, but not ok for the same problematic people to amplify people's voices in other ways?

Do you see the disconnect here?

Let a woman speak but if we don't like what she says let's muzzle her.

If it is not what the group supports, then it should be taken down because it is conveying the values of 'one solitary' woman as the values for the group.

I will repeat this

That website is not that woman's website. Nor is it one that holds a range of opinions so it could be said that it is a 'range of opinions'.
That page does not have that woman's by line on it or a disclaimer that any opinion written there is not necessarily representative of the group.
That page being on that website absolutely does convey that the group as a whole has just those values.

And I disagree with whoever that person is.

Who ever 'Hussy' is, and I can guess who it is, should absolutely be able to speak. For themselves. Go for it. Let other women judge the soundness of that woman's opinions for themselves and if it fall into bullying territory, then Hussy needs to own that they are, in fact, a bully regardless of the other work they do.

I don't agree that she should be 'muzzled' like one would a dog.

I am all for that woman showing the world her intolerant views, her bullying behaviour. And if that woman's friends cannot recognise the bullying behaviour, that is on them.

This division has had me canceling subscriptions, attendence ant events and more considered in contributing to crowd funding. And if this group don’t understand why this is happening by now, then they are so entrenched in believing they pure that they really are as ideological as the TRAs.

Same. I feel really quite disgusted by the sophistry of people like Sapphos telling us that an organisation bullying an individual is somehow the same thing as an individual tweeting something dumb. I think I'm disgusted because it's so insulting and gaslighting. Like, do you really think women are that stupid that we can't see when you're avoiding a question, twisting the facts, making false equivalences and telling outright lies? I promise you, we can see it.

Let a woman speak but if we don't like what she says let's muzzle her.
I don't understand why women on Mumsnet are responsible for something a randomer on twitter says?

I think it's fine for a group of left wing, pro-choice, anti racist, mainly lesbian women to carve out a space for themselves and set very clear boundaries about who they are and what they stand for. It gives a clear message to other left wing, pro choice, anti racist, pro lesbian women in Brighton that there is a space for them.

It would be lovely if all the gender critical women in the world could put aside their differences to fight gender ideology but in reality they will disagree on some fundamental things.

They also agree on some fundamental things too, such as women shouldn't be arrested for hate crime simply for speaking the truth.

brightonsisters.wordpress.com/differences-of-opinion-between-bwlc-and-kellie-jay-keen/

For you Datun

On other threads I have linked articles and statements from prominent and celebrated feminists that are the same or not dissimilar to the points that Kellie Jay has made.

Most of the points have been equally covered in this way.

The point about donor conception, Sappho has clarified to be that the group interpret that as sperm donor ship being an issue, which I believe is a very bad faith interpretation. I understood KJK to be talking about the potential to exploit women for egg donation, which has huge potential for harm for the women involved. As was also discussed on the other thread at the time.

Personally I have never checked anyone's political allegiances before donating to a crowd funder, I support the cause and the end goal.

The cause and the end goal? Didn't you criticise KJK over the the political allegiance of a person employed by the bloody security firm she uses??

KJK is going to be on Triggernometry tonight. It's a prerecorded interview so won't mention this latest incident, obviously.

Oh, for an Edit button! I think they usually release their videos at 7 pm.

Thank you !

Nope, have no idea what you're talking about.

It is the blatant hypocrisy that is the issue.

Not sure I can keep explaining the hypocrisy behind how they are doing this. I am obviously doing a very poor job of it.

I believe I saw posts on that Facebook page from prominent feminists about the police needing to deal with some of the women who were at the USA rallies.

It is just another disconnect on what you say they believe and what their actions are that I find difficult to accept. You are attempting to do a great PR job for them, it is a pity that their actions are not fitting into the position you are saying that they hold.

???

I remember this too.

I think it's fine for a group of left wing, pro-choice, anti racist, mainly lesbian women to carve out a space for themselves and set very clear boundaries about who they are and what they stand for. It gives a clear message to other left wing, pro choice, anti racist, pro lesbian women in Brighton that there is a space for them.

I don't disagree, but why do certain people have to go on and on and on about KJK and SFW? Picking apart every single thing she does and giving it the worst possible interpretation? The countless tweets and blog posts, and as foe that Facebook page - words fail me!*

Surely one statement is enough?

*Not accusing you of all this Sappho, but there are a number of women as described in your post that just won't stop and move on.

The feminists in Brighton have literally just shared their opinions.

If anyone has a problem with women speaking their opinions then they have lost sight of what feminism is.

Feck. Bolding fail on Sappho's post! It's the first paragraph of mine.