Are they really this delusional? *trigger warning - thread mentions suicide*

[Sonervousimgonnathrowup]

I was reading this thread

www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/yvt4ru/how_should_men_respond_to_transphobic_feminists/

and I just couldn’t believe these people are serious!
How can someon be this far gone?
Where do they base their beliefs on?

"So women are only their uterus and should be treated as someone who can have children?" "Absolutely not" "So trans women are women" "No" "Why not" "They can't have kids/they don't have a uterus/ etc" "But you JUST said that women aren't defined by their genitals, so, you're contradicting yourself" "They have a Y chromosome" "So do intersex people and some of them are assigned female at birth and identify as a woman. Are they not women even though they have a vagina/uterus, can get pregnant, were assigned female at birth, and identify as a woman?"

They should stop at that point

Lol. You just know the only time the argument has actually played out like this is in his head.

I don't know why this myth keeps on getting repeated on these boards.

As has been discussed many times before - there is no easy way of knowing the true figures for murders of TW , or TM for that matter, as there are no harmonised standards for recording this data and police forces take different approaches.

We also know that conversations with next of kin can lead to misgendering of the victim, many trans people are not close to unsupportive families who are nevertheless usually the first point of contact for police.

The same difficulty is present in the deaths of young trans people, especially teenagers, by suicide - parents will often not accept a trans identity (which should be unsurprising to people on this board), and reporting by local news agencies which notes trans identity has been taken down in the past as people are somewhat understandably concerned about 'copycat' incidents. Young friends of trans-identified people are also discouraged from trying to correct the reported identity of the young person, again, out of concern of copycat incidents.

These issues mean the true incidence of deaths of trans people is obscured, and it is not logical or possible to make statements like "It's not true that TW are at greater risk of violence. In the UK, on average 2 women are killed every week. In the last ten years, more TW have killed than have been killed."

This.

It's true on the basis of evidence.

It really isn't the problem of feminism to sort out male issues. In fact believing that biologically female people have some innate responsibility for caring for and picking up the pieces for male people is a reason for feminism and liberating females from this whole 'having a vagina makes me everyone's mummy/walking male therapeutic resource' inheritance.

Male people aren't stupid, having a penis does not prevent them functioning as well as females, they're quite capable. Just very used to not having to be buggered as someone with a vagina will sort it. (See the Labour party and envelope stuffing.)

I find it increasingly interesting how every thought that comes out is simply absorbed from us and parroted back. We've noted before if we use a certain word for a few weeks here we can have a quiet kind of game as to how long before it's parroted back. The whole ideology seems based on appropriation. It's quite sad really. Not to mention how very sad and absolutely devoid of sense or basic insight to see female people resisting exclusion and harm as 'angry' ....

As for the whole 'of course they wouldn't behave like men and bad men at that..' - the evidence is right there. Reality. It is happening. It has happened. Women don't take pictures of themselves in loos with swords threatening other women. They don't pinch other people's used tampons to put up their bums. They don't take photos of themselves masturbating in the cubicles to the thrill of female people present with their knickers down. They don't scare, intimidate and fail to give a fuck about other females.

It is going to have to dawn sooner or later that this is never going to go away or reach a happy ending: this does not work for females and we will never stop saying so. And if we were not the subordinate oppressed group (demonstrating that TW are not W and have the power of their sex) we wouldn't be having to repeatedly fight and fight and fight that our inclusion matters too . And the world is not going to revolve at all times around the needs and preferences of people born with penises.

The evidence we have clearly shows that TW are not being murdered, basically, at all in the UK. We also have good evidence and reporting of rates of women killed.

If you see TW as a subset of males, it's possible to say they are at greater risk of violence, because males in general are. However, when we identify tw out of that group, there is no increased risk.

The suicide stats for trans identified youths have been rigorously debunked.

If more data and better evidence emerges, then of course the situation can be reviewed. For now, I'm explaining what we actually know.

O good grief. If you don't know what constitutes evidence there is little point discussing with you.

GC feminists often seem to rate themselves on their supposed rationality and logic; there is a complete death of it on this issue.

Well to be fair @Onnabugeisha you did use language on that thread coined by pedophile apologists so it’s quite reasonable that no one would take you seriously. Mind you, when you’ve tied your horse to the wagon known as gender ideology, which was coined by another pedophile apologist, John Money, I suppose that’s just par for the course.

dearth

Yes, if they had any sense, they’d go straight for the death threats, rape threats, abuse, doxing, science denial methods. Damn them for presenting reasonable, coherent arguments. That’s just literal violence.

You certainly can identify as there not being any, yes.

Relevance to the issue of recording and reporting stats on murder / suicide of trans people?

I really think how people choose to consensually utilise their genitals/reproductive system should be a private 👍🏿☘️🕊 all seems v cos play attention seeking to me 🙄

Lol, You are referring to me using the well established term “cis-women” which was actually the topic of the thread and a term repeated by all and sundry. However, you took all your friends usage of the term “cis-women” seriously, so bit of a hypocrisy you’re showing there. Means imho you don’t even believe your “pedophile apologist” nonsense.

So if no one knows how many trans identified people are being killed or abused, as per @suggestionsplease1 , how can trans identified people be the most vulnerable and oppressed group ever? Either there are records showing more trans identified people are killed, abused and beaten than women or there are not. Anecdotal evidence does not count. Weren’t the suicide stats for trans identified teens debunked years ago, and also evidence found that transition dis not aid mental health?

It’s actually true. Google is your friend. You use terms coined by pedophile apologists, so I presume you are also in agreement with his other ideas. I mean, if you’re using terms without knowing the entomology. That’s really a you problem isn’t it.

you find talking about tampons offensive?

interesting

i thought it was funny. Does any talk relating to menstruation offend you? 🩸 turns out it has an emoji!

See 300 years ago, when it wasn't possible to carry out large, robust, well-designed studies on the rape and murder of women - do you think this means that the rape and murder of women did not happen?

I'm fairly sure the govt and criminal justice system are doing slightly better than 300 years ago in sorting out stats for TQ+ identified people.

And do we think asking for people’s ‘gender’ in research but not their sex will help with this?

remind me who wants to stop gathering sex disaggregated data and who has gone to court to preserve it?

No relevance of course, this is what they do on MN at least. I’m sure there will be some ad hominems along soon.

When some GC feminists are campaigning (and on these boards too) that there is no such thing as a trans person, how do you think this supports the collection and recording of data about crimes committed against trans people?

Is this maybe how the perfect logic goes...

"There is no such thing as a trans person"

ergo "There can be no crimes committed against, or murder of trans people"

Very well done, congratulations.