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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

For Women Scotland Judicial Review 2

420 replies

Signalbox · 06/11/2022 10:44

For Women Scotland Judicial Review: mentioned today in the Times. I didn't realise that this was happening this week on 9th and 10th November according to FWS website...

forwomen.scot/01/09/2022/impact-of-second-judicial-review/

We have a petition for judicial review pending, averring that this revised guidance is not compliant with the court’s decision and is therefore unlawful. The Scottish Government has repeated its earlier error in law by incorporating transsexuals living as women (albeit now restricted to those who hold a GRC) into the definition of woman, thus conflating and confusing two protected characteristics. The Scottish Government has declined to remove the section referring to the GRA and have indicated that it is their understanding that a GRC changes a person’s sex for the purposes of the Equality Act. Whether they believe a person’s biological sex changes on receipt of a GRC or whether they now dispute that the Equality Act refers to biological sex remains to be seen.

Permission has been granted for the judicial review and the substantive hearing date has been set for 9th and 10th November 2022.

We believe this case puts the Committee in a very difficult position as, until such time as the court makes a ruling, the proper relationship between the GRA and the Equality Act cannot be understood, and nor can the consequences of any legislative reform of the GRA.

If the Scottish Government is correct that a person’s sex changes in the Equality Act with a GRC then it follows that the statement to Committee by Cabinet Secretary, Shona Robison, that the GRR Bill “does not redefine what a man or a woman is”, is incorrect. Clearly, if men who hold a GRC (transwomen) are included in the definition of woman (and women who hold a GRC (transmen) are excluded), then changing the circumstances under which a person is entitled to a GRC will also have the effect of changing the definition of woman.

The GRR Bill proposes a significant change to the eligibility criteria for a GRC and will include, for the first time, those without a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and those aged 16 and 17. The Scottish Government also estimates a tenfold increase in applications for a GRC. This diversification and expansion of GRC holders from the current situation will significantly change who is counted under the definition of woman.

Whether a person is defined as a man or a woman matters for the successful operation of the Equality Act across a broad range of provisions, including single-sex exceptions, equal pay claims and access to maternity rights, and we are concerned that this is underappreciated and poorly understood by the Scottish Government. It is, of course, vitally important because any action taken by the Scottish Parliament must be careful not to modify any of the protected characteristics, including the definition of woman, lest it strays into reserved matters.

The Scottish Government seems hopelessly confused and inconsistent when it comes to the definition of woman, with at least three different definitions currently in operation across various pieces of legislation and policy. Contrary to the position outlined above, it fully understood that sex was biological when SNP MSPs voted in favour of the Lamont amendment to substitute gender with sex in the Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) Bill to ensure a request for a female medical examiner resulted in the provision of exactly that, and not a man with a GRC (transwoman).

At the other extreme, the Cabinet Secretary again contradicted the Scottish Government’s current position by asserting a GRC is not required for a man to fall under the definition of woman and access single-sex services for that sex, when she said to Parliament that “the 2010 Act does not apply exceptions specifically to toilets and changing rooms. Trans people can and do use those now, whether they have a GRC or not, and they have been using them for many years.” This fails to recognise the single-sex mandates in legislation relating to schools and workplaces as well as specific examples in the Equality Act Explanatory Notes – we have written separately to you about this matter.

A recent Scottish Government public consultation on the Review of Funding and Commissioning of Violence Against Women and Girls Services redefined a woman as “anyone who defines themselves as a woman”. Not only does this circular statement flagrantly disregard the Inner House ruling but it fails to recognise funding for women’s services can only be allocated via positive action measures in s158 of the Equality Act so must adhere to the protected characteristics. Our letters to both the review group and the Scottish Ministers asking for the consultation to be withdrawn and reissued with a correction have not received any response. We further note the Scottish Government only accepts applications for funding from individual women’s services on production of a LBTI inclusion policy that is transwomen inclusive. Again, this is not dependent on holding a GRC.

In summary, we believe the revised statutory guidance for the Gender Representation on Public Boards Act is unlawful. The Scottish Government believe otherwise and maintain a GRC changes a person’s sex for the purposes of the Equality Act. Not only does this decouple women’s biological sex from sex-specific provisions in the Equality Act, but it means reforming the GRA also carries a serious risk of intruding on reserved matters. The Scottish Government has a history of inconsistency and lack of understanding on both the definition of woman and the operation of the Equality Act. All of this leaves the Committee exposed, trying to make good law in the midst of a live court action, the outcome of which materially affects the reform.

OP posts:
Ramblingnamechanger · 13/12/2022 12:32

Clarifies nothing then. Perhaps this might actually convince some of the waverers to vote against the idea that anybody who wants a GRC should have no obstacles put in their way. Tbf I haven’t seen the judgement yet.

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:32

If they don't repeal GRA the sponsoring government department should publish some very clear guidelines with lots of examples about when single sex provision is non negotiable

ditalini · 13/12/2022 12:33

It does appear a bit odd. So sex and gender mean the same thing for those with a GRC, except (as in the forensic examiner example given) when clearly it means biological sex and it will be clear and obvious when it's the former or the latter on a case by case basis...

Clear as mud. It has a whiff of the Humpty Dumpties about it.

ResisterRex · 13/12/2022 12:35

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/12/2022 12:31

2.12 There is no definition of ‘woman’ set out in the Act with effect from 19 April

2022 following decisions of the Court of 18 February and 22 March 2022.
Therefore ‘woman’ in the Act has the meaning under section 11 and section 212(1) of the Equality Act 2010. In addition, in terms of section 9(1) of the Gender Recognition Act 2004, where a full gender recognition certificate has been issued to a person that their acquired gender is female, the person's sex is that of a woman, and where a full gender recognition certificate has been issued to a person that their acquired gender is male, the person's sex becomes that of a man.

Fucking hell.

Its mind boggling.

Also is it "contained" to Scotland (the 2018 Act)? If not then what's the impact on the other nations?

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 13/12/2022 12:36

If ‘female sex’ means biological sex+biological males with a GRC then the EqA sex based exceptions apply to any male with a GRC. The Scottish Government wants to give these to any bloke who asks and being a convicted sex offender doesn’t disqualify you. It kicks away the whole basis of their argument that this is just a little administrative change.

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 12:38

If female sex means humans of male or female sex, then female as a word is emptied of any meaning.

It's a load of absolute lying tosh at this point. Incomprehensible tosh. Demonstrating what happens when you make bloody awful stupid law.

And yes, it demonstrates that Sturgeon has lied her little head off. As Scotland now intend to throw GRAs around like sweeties, fuck grandfathering clauses or anything else. Gloves off, GRA needs gone.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:39

Is the outer house the last stop? Or is an appeal likely?

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:40

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:32

If they don't repeal GRA the sponsoring government department should publish some very clear guidelines with lots of examples about when single sex provision is non negotiable

as far as I can tell, this confirms that there is no such thing as a 'single sex provision'.

Because someone's sex is legally changed with a GRC, sex therefore becomes meaningless as the category we all understand.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 13/12/2022 12:41

This makes it even more important for the Government to change the EqA as set out in the Sex Matters petition to make it absolutely clear that ‘sex’ means ‘biological sex’. Please sign it. It’s more essential than ever.

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:41

This means that the 'single sex exemptions' are a lie.

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 12:42

Ah but theres that paragraph about sometimes sex means sex in some laws and sometimes it means other things.

The Equality Act for example talking about single sex spaces is meaning biological sex at times is perfectly acceptable.

And the judge says that sometimes sex means nothing in particular in some laws, and biological sex in other laws, and doesn't see this is going to cause any confusions. Or something. 😜

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/12/2022 12:42

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:41

This means that the 'single sex exemptions' are a lie.

Wonder where this leaves Beira's Place?

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 12:42

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 13/12/2022 12:41

This makes it even more important for the Government to change the EqA as set out in the Sex Matters petition to make it absolutely clear that ‘sex’ means ‘biological sex’. Please sign it. It’s more essential than ever.

Yep, that petition now needs to go viral.

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:44

@ArabellaScott exactly. And it's obvious that providers are brow beaten into ignoring their opportunity to provide single sex provision when it's obviously necessary. The court seemed to think a forensic exam was an obvious case where single sex provision is necessary. But we know that the truth is the "reframe your trauma" horror.

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 12:45

The judge specifically mentions that case and that that ruling is ok.

Again: sometimes sex is sex and sometimes sex is an amorphous mess with no definition and this can (apparently) all work just fine depending on the specific situation and law in play. And the judge identifies as this not being a problem.

Chrysanthemum5 · 13/12/2022 12:46

Oh I could cry

HopRockers · 13/12/2022 12:47

REPEAL there's nothing else left

Convicted rapists are going to be "women" in law in Scotland & in our spaces 😭

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:47

Is there a appeal stage beyond this one?

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:48

It's not just the males with GRCs, though, it's added to the fact one is not allowed to ask to see a GRC, which means any male can effectively be any 'sex' they say they are.

happydappy2 · 13/12/2022 12:49

If I was a male with a GRC I'd be very worried right now. The GRA will be repealed.

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:50

Any scope for mass action of women obtaining a GRC in Scotland?

Melroses · 13/12/2022 12:52

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:48

It's not just the males with GRCs, though, it's added to the fact one is not allowed to ask to see a GRC, which means any male can effectively be any 'sex' they say they are.

^^^^
This

HopRockers · 13/12/2022 12:52

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:50

Any scope for mass action of women obtaining a GRC in Scotland?

Without a doubt those will be the only people they go after for a "false declaration" 🤬

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:53

Or a mass trespass into men's toilets