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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

For Women Scotland Judicial Review 2

420 replies

Signalbox · 06/11/2022 10:44

For Women Scotland Judicial Review: mentioned today in the Times. I didn't realise that this was happening this week on 9th and 10th November according to FWS website...

forwomen.scot/01/09/2022/impact-of-second-judicial-review/

We have a petition for judicial review pending, averring that this revised guidance is not compliant with the court’s decision and is therefore unlawful. The Scottish Government has repeated its earlier error in law by incorporating transsexuals living as women (albeit now restricted to those who hold a GRC) into the definition of woman, thus conflating and confusing two protected characteristics. The Scottish Government has declined to remove the section referring to the GRA and have indicated that it is their understanding that a GRC changes a person’s sex for the purposes of the Equality Act. Whether they believe a person’s biological sex changes on receipt of a GRC or whether they now dispute that the Equality Act refers to biological sex remains to be seen.

Permission has been granted for the judicial review and the substantive hearing date has been set for 9th and 10th November 2022.

We believe this case puts the Committee in a very difficult position as, until such time as the court makes a ruling, the proper relationship between the GRA and the Equality Act cannot be understood, and nor can the consequences of any legislative reform of the GRA.

If the Scottish Government is correct that a person’s sex changes in the Equality Act with a GRC then it follows that the statement to Committee by Cabinet Secretary, Shona Robison, that the GRR Bill “does not redefine what a man or a woman is”, is incorrect. Clearly, if men who hold a GRC (transwomen) are included in the definition of woman (and women who hold a GRC (transmen) are excluded), then changing the circumstances under which a person is entitled to a GRC will also have the effect of changing the definition of woman.

The GRR Bill proposes a significant change to the eligibility criteria for a GRC and will include, for the first time, those without a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and those aged 16 and 17. The Scottish Government also estimates a tenfold increase in applications for a GRC. This diversification and expansion of GRC holders from the current situation will significantly change who is counted under the definition of woman.

Whether a person is defined as a man or a woman matters for the successful operation of the Equality Act across a broad range of provisions, including single-sex exceptions, equal pay claims and access to maternity rights, and we are concerned that this is underappreciated and poorly understood by the Scottish Government. It is, of course, vitally important because any action taken by the Scottish Parliament must be careful not to modify any of the protected characteristics, including the definition of woman, lest it strays into reserved matters.

The Scottish Government seems hopelessly confused and inconsistent when it comes to the definition of woman, with at least three different definitions currently in operation across various pieces of legislation and policy. Contrary to the position outlined above, it fully understood that sex was biological when SNP MSPs voted in favour of the Lamont amendment to substitute gender with sex in the Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) Bill to ensure a request for a female medical examiner resulted in the provision of exactly that, and not a man with a GRC (transwoman).

At the other extreme, the Cabinet Secretary again contradicted the Scottish Government’s current position by asserting a GRC is not required for a man to fall under the definition of woman and access single-sex services for that sex, when she said to Parliament that “the 2010 Act does not apply exceptions specifically to toilets and changing rooms. Trans people can and do use those now, whether they have a GRC or not, and they have been using them for many years.” This fails to recognise the single-sex mandates in legislation relating to schools and workplaces as well as specific examples in the Equality Act Explanatory Notes – we have written separately to you about this matter.

A recent Scottish Government public consultation on the Review of Funding and Commissioning of Violence Against Women and Girls Services redefined a woman as “anyone who defines themselves as a woman”. Not only does this circular statement flagrantly disregard the Inner House ruling but it fails to recognise funding for women’s services can only be allocated via positive action measures in s158 of the Equality Act so must adhere to the protected characteristics. Our letters to both the review group and the Scottish Ministers asking for the consultation to be withdrawn and reissued with a correction have not received any response. We further note the Scottish Government only accepts applications for funding from individual women’s services on production of a LBTI inclusion policy that is transwomen inclusive. Again, this is not dependent on holding a GRC.

In summary, we believe the revised statutory guidance for the Gender Representation on Public Boards Act is unlawful. The Scottish Government believe otherwise and maintain a GRC changes a person’s sex for the purposes of the Equality Act. Not only does this decouple women’s biological sex from sex-specific provisions in the Equality Act, but it means reforming the GRA also carries a serious risk of intruding on reserved matters. The Scottish Government has a history of inconsistency and lack of understanding on both the definition of woman and the operation of the Equality Act. All of this leaves the Committee exposed, trying to make good law in the midst of a live court action, the outcome of which materially affects the reform.

OP posts:
TheBiologyStupid · 13/12/2022 12:16

Thanks, Hatty - much appreciated! ;o)

CharlieParley · 13/12/2022 12:18

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:14

2 words.

We won!

Or

We lost 😞

The statement can follow.

<bah humbug vibes & stamps feet>

Hmm yes, but either way, the second they announce they'll be inundated with media enquiries, phones ringing off the hook, thousands of mails, messages and so on.

And they're all volunteers with day jobs.

nauticant · 13/12/2022 12:21

I assume the announcement on Twitter can't be made before the moment that the judgment is actually handed down. Which might be its publication on the Internet.

SlipperyLizard · 13/12/2022 12:21

I think it is here & I think FWS lost 😩

www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022csoh90.pdf?sfvrsn=8eee302c_1

ResisterRex · 13/12/2022 12:21

ResisterRex · 13/12/2022 12:16

Does it have to be published here or have I got the wrong site completely? Because it's not here:

www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/court-of-session

It's here - just seen, not read:

www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022csoh90.pdf?sfvrsn=8eee302c_1

Signalbox · 13/12/2022 12:24

Boo!

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:25

My read is that sex can include person with GRC. Hmmm

SelfPortraitWithHagstone · 13/12/2022 12:25

Repeal the GRA.

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:26

'“sex” is not limited to biological or birth sex, but includes those in possession of a GRC obtained in accordance with the 2004 Act stating their acquired gender, and thus their sex.'

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 12:26

So the GRA has to go.

AutumnCrow · 13/12/2022 12:27

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:25

My read is that sex can include person with GRC. Hmmm

Because of the fucking GRA?

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:27

Repeal the GRA.

Abccde · 13/12/2022 12:27

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:25

My read is that sex can include person with GRC. Hmmm

I wouldn't be surprised. And that is the reason for the judgement now.

If it includes someone with a GRC how can the Scottish Government claim their is no impact on SSS when they are giving out GRCs like sweeties.

Signalbox · 13/12/2022 12:27

I just don't understand what the consequences of this are. If TW count as women for the purposes of the EA how can the exceptions be applied to them as stated in the GRA? It just doesn't make sense.

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 13/12/2022 12:27

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:25

My read is that sex can include person with GRC. Hmmm

Mine too. But how? It's a GENDER recognition certificate. What is gender? It's not sex. The EQA is clear about sex.

The GRA must be repealed.

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 12:28

It seems somewhat incoherent. The end points about sex sometimes means sex in law and sometimes in other laws means other things....and this is ok and won't confuse anything.

Bollocks. Bloody awful law and this demonstrates that female rights and the GRA are incompatible.

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:28

I couldn't work out what they were getting at with the intimate exam bit. Were they saying that the requirement for same biological sex isn't impeded? Which means it can still be same biological sex and not someone with a GRC?

TinFoilHatty · 13/12/2022 12:28

Well there we are then.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/12/2022 12:28

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:26

'“sex” is not limited to biological or birth sex, but includes those in possession of a GRC obtained in accordance with the 2004 Act stating their acquired gender, and thus their sex.'

That is terrifying. A legal judgement that flies completely in the face of material reality.

The party says 2+2=5 ...

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:28

Signalbox · 13/12/2022 12:27

I just don't understand what the consequences of this are. If TW count as women for the purposes of the EA how can the exceptions be applied to them as stated in the GRA? It just doesn't make sense.

Nothing about the GRA makes sense. Now with this judgement, there's a more urgent need to repeal the GRA IMO.

Helleofabore · 13/12/2022 12:29

There is no choice now but to unpick this tortured mess.

GRA needs to go. No legal fiction should be allowed.

AutumnCrow · 13/12/2022 12:29

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:26

'“sex” is not limited to biological or birth sex, but includes those in possession of a GRC obtained in accordance with the 2004 Act stating their acquired gender, and thus their sex.'

And it is on that peg that we hang a campaign to repeal the madness of the GRA and its anti-reality wording.

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 12:29

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:28

Nothing about the GRA makes sense. Now with this judgement, there's a more urgent need to repeal the GRA IMO.

That.

There is now no other option.

donationsMakeMeFeelBetter · 13/12/2022 12:31

Yes. Although donations make me feel better I didn't donate to this one because I didn't think it could win. What the loss does is to demonstrate that the GRA must go. Let's have at it.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/12/2022 12:31

2.12 There is no definition of ‘woman’ set out in the Act with effect from 19 April

2022 following decisions of the Court of 18 February and 22 March 2022.
Therefore ‘woman’ in the Act has the meaning under section 11 and section 212(1) of the Equality Act 2010. In addition, in terms of section 9(1) of the Gender Recognition Act 2004, where a full gender recognition certificate has been issued to a person that their acquired gender is female, the person's sex is that of a woman, and where a full gender recognition certificate has been issued to a person that their acquired gender is male, the person's sex becomes that of a man.

Fucking hell.