Why? What is the endgame for TRAs

[Brefugee]

I keep wondering why this is all happening now. What was the actual trigger point of people like Nicola Sturgeon becoming so adamant that the rights of Trans people have to be promoted and fought for at this time?

Why is it desireable that GRCs be obtainable so quickly? Does it all go back to Foucault and his post-modernist cronies? What is it that Sturgeon and Trudeau and other governments who are falling over themselves to push a trans-agenda up to? what is in it for them?

To be clear: I'm not rabidly anti-trans and up to now it hasn't really impinged on my life in any other way (I did know two transwomen way back but have lost touch. I do know a couple of young transmen and they seem fine but i don't know them well). I am painfully aware, of course, that other people's lives are being hugely impacted by this (seemingly?) sudden surge in transwomen and am very keen, as a 2nd wave feminist, that women are protected and allowed to live their lives and achieve their full potential in any way they can/want to. (so I'm not TWAW - i'm in favour of either fully proper unisex spaces or 3rd spaces)

I just don't get why. Why now? Why Canada? Why Scotland? Why anywhere?

and while the whole trans movement isn't run by or for the benefit of paedophiles, they're certainly all for something that seeks to convince people that children have the capacity to consent to serious and life changing acts. that's right in line with what they'd like to happen

let's see if this post lasts - noticing that many men fetishise femininity does tend to attract deletions

there is a well documented subset of men who are aroused by the idea of themselves as women. they are often the ones who shout the loudest and make the most unreasonable demands in the trans movement. they are motivated by sexual satisfaction. that's their end game

then you have your men who hate women

your billy braggs and your owen joneses. they get to be absolutely vile to women on the internet and still feel good about themselves. that's the end game for them

It's based on core misogyny. Women are starting to convince society that they deserve equality, and some men don't like it. Not all men by any means, but those men who feel the need to have guaranteed superiority over women. All women. First, it was religion; now it is the trans movement.

Sadly, politicians see this as a way of securing votes from those men and other 'woke' people.

I have great sympathy with people who are trans, but not with the overall trans movement, which I believe to be woman-phobic.

Yeah that's what people thought about lesbian and gay kids too once. It was just a fad or fashion or young people acting up. They were convinced this 'madness' would be over one day and everyone would grow up and accept basic biology

No, not at all.

The key difference being that lesbian/gay rights never impinged upon anyone else's. Or demanded we all lies about basic biological fact .

I really despair of peoples critical thinking skills if they can't see this. Are posters really that thick?

First, it was religion; now it is the trans movement.

And let's face it, the parallels between the two are very significant

Life experience is the difference. We were all young and easily duped once. This generation will go through exactly the same process.

I do wonder if it's not just age - maybe substituting screen time for life experience has rendered some of the young (and not so young) TRA types much more lacking in insight than they would otherwise be.

I do think though that even if some people are permanently impaired in social cognition as a result of this, that the pendulum will still swing back. It's impossible to bury the truth forever, even in a world where many people are permanently confused by information overload.

The 'trans kids' on cross sex hormones have a lower life expectancy (look at the german female swimmers who were on testosterone, many died in their 30s from the side affects), maybe mentally impaired from the cross sex hormones (oestrogen causes dementia ealier in males) or may be dealing with diabilities from osteoporosis. They also may be trying to find a way to pay for their lifetime subscription to medication if the NHS collapses as it very well might.

I would say they are potentially not going to be in any fit state to do much at all. Once the tidal wave of scandals - both medical and sexual finally flood public life, everyone else will be running as far as they can to hide from any affiliation to this movement. All that will be left are the casualties.

The Nazi youth were very ideological, and very passionate about what they believed to be the new, better future and they were quite wrong. Im sure they thought they knew so much more than the concerned grandmother who lived next door, with a lifetime of wisdom.

And there it is - the ageism that's dripping from many TRAs and their nonsense. Just cull all the old people and the world will be a wonderful place eh?
Be kind never extends very far does it.

No need for a cull, just let nature take its course. I'm no spring chicken myself but hopefully will live long enough to come through this backlash and see the better world for trans and gender diverse people that the younger generations are building.

Older men and women that won't be around forever. Thankfully a generation has emerged with a more enlightened and humane approach to gender identity.

Really? We can all be gullible when we are young. And then we all become older men and women after a while. (No binary smashing there? Just men and women?)

My much older than me friend, who used to come into the pub crossdressed, left his wife and kids and now cross dresses full time and has a long term boyfriend. His severely religious bullying Vicar father died.

I wonder what fascinating insights the generation that has emerged can tell us about that? The generation that includes his 30ish year old sons he left, after using their mother as cover for his homosexuality?

The enlightenment will come when gay men no longer do that, not while generations continue to pretend closeted gay men are women.

Something seems to be going wrong since around 2015. I wonder what it could possibly be….

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/06/24/lgbtq-acceptance-millennials-decline-glaad-survey/1503758001/

tbh i don't think it's helpful to connect it to paedophilia. That happened in the 70s and 80s targetted at gay men and it wasn't good then and it's not good now.

Thankfully a generation has emerged with a more enlightened and humane approach to gender identity.

no. Gender Identity is little more than conforming to gender stereotypes - a completely constructed idea (by whom? men probably) as to how people should behave. Men don't cry. Women have long hair. Men can do whatever they like, women nurture, etc etc. And it always has been utterly bullshit. A lot of things that girls/women like, stereotypically, are things that i wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Some things i like (shoes, lipstick) other things not so much (baking, homemaking, children). On the other hand i do like beer, pizza and football.

The quicker we do away with ideas like "gender identity" in favour of us really honestly "living our best lives" the happier we'll be. Well, i will, anyway.

I think it’s a perfect storm of push factors, from all kinds of directions.

One thing I notice with politics is that the UK parties which have really swallowed this stuff the most - the Greens, the SNP, Labour - and not with an obvious financial motivation when donations were thin on the ground like LibDems & WEP - have all run with it following difficulties in doing actual politics.

This is a substitute for politics (I think it’s attractive for that reason) and - if you don’t care about women - must have appeared relatively cost free.

Yes, this is an important observation. What was going on with these kinds of groups?

And it's all part of id politics.

If you look at the current "anti-racism" movement, there are a ton of parallels with gender ideology. Manichean kinds of constructs, abstractions where things that are material become wholly abstract, reversals of hierarchies, essentialism.

Here in Canada, our Green Party, which for a while looked to be on the way to being a significant political force, has publicly imploded, and seem to have little or no hope of renewal. And it's all down to issues of basic governance and behaviour.

Well I think a factor might be the creation of a load of child bodied but technically adult people. Who haven't cognitively developed as they should, as their normal puberty pathway was distrupted. Who are vulnerable to exploitation by adults in their section of society. Who have convinced these poor individuals that evil women are terribly wrong.
But we are not evil, we are concerned mothers who can see this is terribly wrong.

However that is really depressing.

All the U.K. parties I mentioned have had a wave of new intake, a lot of optimism... and frustration & failure - at roughly the same time.

The SNP kind of had it hardest: they lost the independence referendum in 2014 BUT they were still in government. What were they to offer?

The Greens got millions of votes nationally but have only ever had one seat in Parliament. Plus actually tackling climate change is really hard & quite depressingly low on the political agenda.

Labour was not expecting to lose in 2015. They then gained tens of thousands of members, treated them with a certain suspicion, just missed winning in 2017 & totally missed in 2019.

the big shock for all of these parties was Brexit (and Trump too).

Lots of people watching a massive change they never signed up for which they (most of them) knew would be bad for everyone- and there’s nothing they could do.

Theres a tendency to recoil, turn inwards, rearrange the furniture, go for what looks like easy wins... if you don’t mind throwing women’s rights down the loo.

It's not 'enlightenment' that I see, which would require critical thought. It's capitulation, and a 'follow or be damned' mentality. This is the polar opposite of enlightenment, and it's certainly not humane. How on Earth did you come by those notions?

That’ll never happen.

Women are continually radicalised into feminism by motherhood (or by the effort it takes to actively avoid motherhood and the judgement that often accompanies it).

As long as the human species continues to reproduce, women will continue to to have WTF epiphany moments regarding their own biology.

It’s easy to convince yourself that there are no differences between men and women when you are young, but it becomes increasingly difficult to continue believing that when you have to deal with periods/contraception/abortion/invasive fertility treatments/pregnancy/miscarriage/childbirth/breastfeeding/birth injuries/endometriosis etc and getting sidelined into the mummy track at work, when your male peers don’t.

it’s like how older people tend more towards conservatism - the youth think ‘oh all the Tories are old and will die off eventually’ and they assume they’ll get their socialist utopia eventually but they are failing to understand that people become increasingly conservative as they age because they value what they’ve worked to achieve (community, home ownership, family life, career success) and obviously, if you care about something you want to conserve it - you aren’t going to smash up a system unless there is concrete evidence that the replace system will be better.

you aren’t going to convince society to replace sex segregation with gender identity segregation unless gender identity segregation becomes demonstrably better for the majority than sex segregation.

And the more we see of the social effects of gender identity policies (male rapists in Women’s prisons, women denied same sex nursing care, lesbian barristers going to employment tribunals because they’ve been penalised for saying they won’t consider sex with a penisperson, childhood transitioners with spinal problems due to early onset osteoporosis, ever increasing numbers of detransitioners etc etc) the less the public want of them.

LGBT acceptance is falling in the polls, not rising. If gender identity ideologues would allow that data to be collected separately, we’d probably see that LGB acceptance is static but for anything under the trans umbrella, acceptance is falling (including drag).

little girls are getting terfier by the day - the sports issue alone is making girls from age 10 or so up recognise that gender transitioned boys are making things increasingly worse for girls.

The main difference between older women and younger women is that older women are less likely to care about popularity/being liked by men so we are more likely to outright tell transitioned males to fuck off to the far side of fuck (exhibit a: Germaine Greer).

I don't think it's one homogenous movement. I think it's a variety of agendas under one (loose) umbrella term that it's safe to operate under, because it brooks no dissent nor argument.

As to the end game of those agendas, if I commented frankly about my own theories as to what those are, I'd see a ban.

Suffice it to say, the old-school transsexuals who've been around long before the Gender Purists kicked off, were never vociferous noise-makers and never caused any trouble that I could see, albeit there will have been bad apples in the barrel as there are everywhere. On that topic, this is very likely the reason why Genderists so loathe transsexuals even to the point of trying to erase their name for themselves (as they've tried to erase the name women).

The TRA agenda - or at least certain and by no means fringe factions of it - IMO has little to do with trans rights. And there is likely a reason why age and demographic is such a factor: the correlation between young girls and autism, and the correlation between middle-aged men and something else entirely.

Think I'll stop there.

NB. This approach then allows them to claim that the pushback against their insidious colonisation of women's rights, LGB rights, and the safeguarding of children, can all be wrapped up in the same gaudy paper and presented to a credulous public as 'transphobia'. The aggressors are now viewed as the victims. They are under attack from a hostile society, as gay people were in the 1980s.

It's disingenuous, DARVO at its finest, and actually quite ingenious. It took some time for the rest of society to catch up with their approaches, meaning that by the time this happened they'd already got a foothold.

At that time, and still to some extent now, (especially if like me you work in a captured institution, taking issue with this stuff is like going into Topsy Turvey land and trying to reason out with them why nothing's the right way up.

We saw the response we got at the time. #NoDebate.

It's funny how that's the opinion when it comes to women and our safe spaces yet it changes when it comes to transwomen and the reasons why they "need" to be in women's prisons/changing rooms/toilets, then it's for their safety which is legitimate for some reason when women's safety is not

So is the young woman, crying because her privacy whilst undressing was violated twice by men in a Primark changing room, the enlightened one or the one you want to die out?

I personally think it's a more serious sex crime than invasion of privacy but I'm not sure of the legal position.

What a great comment. Realising as a 40 year old mother that things were no different from 20 years ago has really reignited my feminism! Couldn't agree more

Sazzasez ·
the big shock for all of these parties was Brexit (and Trump too).

Lots of people watching a massive change they never signed up for which they (most of them) knew would be bad for everyone- and there’s nothing they could do.
Brexit was the democratic will of the majority of those who voted in 2016. My generation voted heavily to leave, not for ourselves (there were things we could benefit from in the EU) but mainly altruistically for our children and grandchildren who were going to be involved in a federal system that delivered minimal democratic input not only to electorates but to the governments of member states - that this is in truth what was on the cards can be seen of the EU's subsequent actions; we also did not realise, of course, how unpleasant the EU was going to be to a country that a) dared to have a referendum to leave and b) enacted that referendum in a democratic manner instead of having another referendum to negate the first (usual EU practice when a referendum cannot be ignored). Labour lost the 2019 election because they did not support Brexit, since most of their voters gained nothing from being in the EU and lost a great deal because of the effects of freedom of movement on UK job opportunities and wages at their level. Why mumsnet - or at least this forum - are so anti-Brexit when they presumably believe in democracy is beyond my comprehension.