Why? What is the endgame for TRAs

[Brefugee]

I keep wondering why this is all happening now. What was the actual trigger point of people like Nicola Sturgeon becoming so adamant that the rights of Trans people have to be promoted and fought for at this time?

Why is it desireable that GRCs be obtainable so quickly? Does it all go back to Foucault and his post-modernist cronies? What is it that Sturgeon and Trudeau and other governments who are falling over themselves to push a trans-agenda up to? what is in it for them?

To be clear: I'm not rabidly anti-trans and up to now it hasn't really impinged on my life in any other way (I did know two transwomen way back but have lost touch. I do know a couple of young transmen and they seem fine but i don't know them well). I am painfully aware, of course, that other people's lives are being hugely impacted by this (seemingly?) sudden surge in transwomen and am very keen, as a 2nd wave feminist, that women are protected and allowed to live their lives and achieve their full potential in any way they can/want to. (so I'm not TWAW - i'm in favour of either fully proper unisex spaces or 3rd spaces)

I just don't get why. Why now? Why Canada? Why Scotland? Why anywhere?

Super.

But we clearly can’t jettison them female only safe spaces until AFTER the patriarchy is overthrown.

We tried in the second and third waves and now we’re old and tired and way too busy safeguarding children.

We’ll be over here waiting - let us know when you’ve ticked ‘overthrown the patriarchy’ ‘ended capitalism’ ‘installed luxury fully-automated communism and given everyone free cosmetic surgery’ off your list:

Don’t forget to pack a Kagool and a jam sandwich..

Step 1) abolish the safe spaces.

Step 2) oops that didn’t work out like we thought.

Step 3) rips off mask actually you know what, it kind of did.

Stonewall needed a new money spinner after gay marriage became legal almost everywhere.

Gay and minorities was too politically tricky and gay footballers too small fry.

So here we are.

Women and children need services and safe spaces away from men, end of story.

Men are more violent and more likely to commit sexual abuse. This is a fact, with plenty of evidence.

I could go out and sit with my chickens and theorise with them that if I paint the cockerels claws a beautiful burgundy colour they can all live in a chicken utopia where he doesn't jump on their back every day and pin them to the ground as he mates with them. They can all cluck along with me, and as much as i have gassed hot air into the atmosphere and maybe used fancy words, nothing is gonna change in that cockerels behaviour.

To be fair to livvy - there is a valid point in that one shouldn't be defeatist, and always assume that you can't be in a better place than where you are. You should always be striving to improve the system.

But starting with the assumption that you don't need to worry about where you are because utopia will be here Any Day Now is delusional.

Doubly so when the utopia involves people not acting like people clearly act. (Maybe possible with some genetic engineering and/or some revolutionary conditioning system. Drugs?)

Livvy
Even Marx and Engels recognised you couldn't reach Utopia in a single step. Socialism was a stepping stone to communism. Similarly, women have to deal with the crap that is putting them at risk now and stop it getting worse before we can "smash the patriarchy".
So, in theory you have an argument but in practice people have to manage in their lived reality.

We tried in the second and third waves and now we’re old and tired and way too busy safeguarding children.

Luckily there's a new generation seeking to do exactly that and completely break down the gender binary. That's worthy of attention and support because no matter how it pans out it could hardly be much worse than what women have gone through historically.

As to the gender critical project, even if you could eliminate every trans person on earth most women wouldn't notice. Male violence would continue relentlessly, women would still be paid less for the same work, child caring and reproductive labour would still be undermined and mostly carried out by women. But I understand that it feels in some way achievable, whereas tackling patriarchy just feels too vast. Much like some working class people deceive themselves into thinking if we could just get rid of all the immigrants suddenly there would no longer a housing crisis, low wages, poor work opportunities and the exploitation of the poor. It wouldn't actually make any difference because it is not immigrants exploiting them - they are also ecxploited. It's an illusion, that pits the poor against each other just like gender critical ideology is an illusion that pits the victims of male violence against each other - which is why it is supported by patriarchal institutions, just as anti immigrant sentiment is supported by the most ideological capitalists.

I agree.

And I've read some fucking ridiculous things recently! 😆

Are we all going to reproduce by budding?

Because I'm not sure you can dismantle the sex binary without that.

completely break down the gender binary

how does saying ' this person with testicles thinks like a woman'

break down the gender binary?

surely it reinforces it? it builds in the belief that all women think like this person with testicles. right?

@livvyposts , as for accepting male violence as inevitable

what do you say to the women who have been sexually assaulted by men they are locked up in prison with? the victims of Karen White? what are they? just collateral damage on your way to utopia?

It's not gender that causes women to need safe spaces from men. It is sex. Sex differences. The inescapable fact of women being a reproductive resource. Women's bodies carrying millions of years of evolutionary trade offs that allow them to carry and birth offspring but make them physically weaker than men in other respects.

You can't escape the sex binary. Ask the "AFAB" non-binaries hoping to run the Bosten marathon in the "non-binary" category.

Boston. Fucking autocucumber.

How are you going to end rape & femicide by breaking down the gender binary?

51% of humans will still be smaller and less strong than the other 49%.

51% of humans will still have to do 100% of the pregnancy and child birth.

51% of humans will still have different medical needs.

49% of humans will still do all the raping (which requires a penis)

You can rebrand all you like but replacing the patriarchy with a new Patricia-archy won’t stop humans from being sexually dimorphic mammals.

It’ll be the same shit, different day, only the man with his foot on your neck will be wearing stilettos instead of brogues.

funny that you think Liberalism means accepting male violence (spoiler: it doesn’t) but you believe Genderism will what, magically make male violence go away?

You put me in mind of the time the Tories ‘solved’ child poverty by changing the metrics by which child poverty is calculated.

Suddenly there were a lot less children ‘living on the breadline’ but weirdly, there were still exactly the same number of children being told to duck behind the sofa to hide from the bailiffs.

Post Modern ‘Queering’’ of words and categories does absolutely nothing to improve the material conditions of vulnerable people. It just makes it harder to spot vulnerable people, makes it harder to create adequate systems to safeguard vulnerable people and makes it harder for vulnerable people to advocate for themselves.

Your beliefs are Luxury Beliefs.

I bet you are ‘anti carceral’ too 🤣

Ah the old “breaking the gender binary” by - checks notes - saying that men who like to wear dresses & make up are actually women rather than men who just like to wear dresses

yes fucking ground breaking 🙄

I used to think that men and women were equal and "biological essentialism" was anti-women and an excuse for sexism. Then I got pregnant and gave birth. Feminism still has a lot of work to do on providing safe, positive experiences of birth, post-partum care and child-rearing. But you cannot escape the biological facts of our bodies and their abilities.

Trans people seem to want to deny the reality of their lives, bodies and expressions. I don't see how that can end well for anyone. And while they all seem happy in the naked, mixed showers in Starship Troopers, I'm not sure we're there yet. And I also don't want to see every women’s sports champion being a transgender man.

anti immigrant sentiment is supported by the most ideological capitalists.

You are you well funny - I hope you didn’t pay a university to teach you all this rubbish?

Open borders is a neoliberal, capitalist policy - Reagan and Thatcher would be well surprised to learn that by 2022 a random Mumsnet poster had gone so far down the PoMo rabbit hole they’ve rebranded Reaganomics as left wing.

americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/11/the-left-case-against-open-borders/

Still, I suppose you could argue that Maggie and Ron smashed the gender binary years ago - they were both very fond of a pin striped navy suit and bouffant, blow dried hair.

So tired of this fucking fantasy land shit about smashing the binary. Fuck off. It's evolution, you want to smash that? You'll need a fucking time machine to go back and have a word with a population of microbes. All we can do is form societies that best mitigate the disadvantages and vulnerability that women carry due to their reproductive role. We were doing alright until this gender binary smashing bullshit came along.

Taking away the words we need to define ourselves as a sex class doesn't fucking help build that society.

But the gender hierarchy facilitates and encourages rape. It attempts to strip women of their humanity and turn them into sexualised possessions and teaches young men that women's sexual bounderies are something to be overcome whether by violence or a twisted view of romance. Boys are still taught to pursue women and whilst hopefully that is beginning to change that has been the dominant cultural narrative for a long time. Manhood or masculinity is often culturally defined by the ability and capacity to commit violence. That needs to change before any real progress can be made.

The endgame is transhumanism.
Read Jennifer Bilek.

No one has ever been able to show that violence against women, or other issues women face, are actually the result of something called "the patriarchy". People who talk this way ultimately don't even know what they mean.

All of these id pol constructs, systemic racism, the patriarchy, gender identity, remind me of nothing so much as the most base interpretation of the Treasury of Merit. An attempt to describe something real that takes on a life of its own, which grows more and more removed from the thing it actually attempted to describe, and produces all kinds of theories on the basis of imaginary elements.

True radicals, of both the second and third wave, seek to overthrow the entire system of patriarchal domination so that safe spaces are no longer necessary.

And how will they manage this? Castrate all males at birth, is that what you're getting at?

So if the trans ideology is “smashing the gender binary”. Why do men who claim to be trans always wear make up, womens clothing and heels, and have surgery or hormones to have breasts, and why do women who claim to be trans take hormones to grow facial hair and have their breasts removed?

wouldn’t smashing the gender binary be :
men wear whatever they want, including make up etc
women wear whatever they want
we can’t smash the sexbinary because we’re mammals, sex is immutable and binary.