Why? What is the endgame for TRAs

[Brefugee]

I keep wondering why this is all happening now. What was the actual trigger point of people like Nicola Sturgeon becoming so adamant that the rights of Trans people have to be promoted and fought for at this time?

Why is it desireable that GRCs be obtainable so quickly? Does it all go back to Foucault and his post-modernist cronies? What is it that Sturgeon and Trudeau and other governments who are falling over themselves to push a trans-agenda up to? what is in it for them?

To be clear: I'm not rabidly anti-trans and up to now it hasn't really impinged on my life in any other way (I did know two transwomen way back but have lost touch. I do know a couple of young transmen and they seem fine but i don't know them well). I am painfully aware, of course, that other people's lives are being hugely impacted by this (seemingly?) sudden surge in transwomen and am very keen, as a 2nd wave feminist, that women are protected and allowed to live their lives and achieve their full potential in any way they can/want to. (so I'm not TWAW - i'm in favour of either fully proper unisex spaces or 3rd spaces)

I just don't get why. Why now? Why Canada? Why Scotland? Why anywhere?

Very amused by the suggestion that transgenderism "challenges the patriarchy".

Me too @Ereshkigalangcleg

"That and of course the overthrow of patriarchy and capitalism and with it the abolishment of gender as a hierarchical system"

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 oh bless your little student socks.

@livvyposts
Not sure how the removal of words like mother and woman from NHS sites and denying vulnerable women intimate care from other women gets rid of the patriarchy. Can you explain how please?

Also can you explain how encouraging my autistic teen daughter to have plastic surgery on her body is anti capitalist?

Can you also explain what rights trans people don't have in the UK?

It was some time ago that I thought we needed a discussion on the endgame. And what Dentons had to do with it.
livvy's endgame only involves provision for the trans, not society as a whole. It doesn't see where the money comes from, it doesn't see where others end up, such as women and children.
While I started writing this, the Rev. Sam Wells of St Martin's in the Fields started talking about taxes as a sign of our involvement in the lives of others, of that involvement being part of the freedom due to individuals. (I'm going to have to relisten as it is hard to follow two intertwining but related lines of thought simultaneously. I am now listening to an item on cleaning up the police, again related. The effect of poor vetting on dealing with women, both inside and outside the force.)
If it is only Big Pharma and the transhumanists, and a bunch of not very clear thinking young people with self centred goals maybe its not too serious.
But suppose there is a group with an overall endgame in mind, that has been at work since PIE. Is that possible? That there is a group of men aiming for Worse Than Gilead, with enslaved and mutilated women with no intellectual function in society, confined like the victims of the Taliban, with castrated young boys never able to achieve full maturity of mind. It doesn't seem likely, as WTG would obviously die out. So that isn't it.

Well we are on the subjects of patriarchy and capitalism I feel a need to add environmentalism all the medication, surgery and just affirming consumer stuff you have to buy etc is surely bad for the planet. I remember worrying in my younger days, what contraception could I choose which wouldn’t create waste in landfill or pollute the rivers. I ended up choosing natural family planning methods for most of my life. It could also be argued that the arrogant total domination of man over nature by technological means is reflected in this desire to change human beings from one sex to the other or render some entirely sexless and very much a patriarchal ideal.

Cui bono?
Who benefits from;-

• reinforcing female stereotypes
• breaking down safeguarding boundaries
• putting children on a path to lifelong medical treatment
• undermining the concept of same-sex attraction
• removing women's right to single sex prisons, hospital wards, rape crisis centres, sports, changing rooms etc.

It's easier to say who doesn't benefit

• women
• children
• LGB people
• trans people who don't want their life experiences hijacked by the pronoun brigade
• people with DSD who don't want to be used as a gotcha.
• girls with autism

The current trans rights movement is steeped in the patriarchy. Straight men are the one group least impacted.

It's rare but it happens, here's a list of when the NHS may carry out cosmetic or plastins surgery.

Gender reassignment procedures are also rare, there's only a tiny proportion of people having this kind of surgery, in part because waiting lists are so long but also because they aren't actually that many trans people.

Sorry for got my own link: www.nhs.uk/conditions/cosmetic-procedures/cosmetic-procedures-on-the-nhs/

The patriarchy certainly seems to think it does, every major patriarchal institution in the world is opposed to trans rights.

Such sneakiness. I didn't even know about that law being brought in to Ireland until I read it on here and I'm damn sure most other ordinary people in Ireland didn't either (and probably still don't) England has done a fantastic job on shining the light on all this stuff though

I'm damn sure most other ordinary people in Ireland didn't either (and probably still don't

So a law which it is claimed would erase women and destroy women's rights forever was introduced in a country 6 years ago now and most people haven't even noticed? It's almost as if Self ID has had no impact on women at all, or at least not one they've noticed.

The Dentons report was published in 2019 incidentally, Self ID was introduced in Ireland in 2016.

The end game is get rid of the legal age of sex and dismantle child safe guarding. That’s it.

This week I’ve seen way more MAP activity on Twitter and Gillick Competency suggested in children being able to transition with out parental knowledge. When society accepts children of 9 can make these life changing decisions behind their parents backs then it’s one small step away from being accepted that they can decide when to have sex.

There has been a huge push from charities and organisations to isolate children away from their parents. These children are then at their most vulnerable

All the kids, angry teenagers they are all just a smoke screen of collateral damage.

I think you are on to something there Hugocat1 it is all very disturbing.

The end game is get rid of the legal age of sex and dismantle child safe guarding. That’s it.

Don't be silly.

There has been a huge push from charities and organisations to isolate children away from their parents. These children are then at their most vulnerable

No, there is a recognition from charities that work with abused children that parents are very often the perpetrators and sometimes children need to be protected from them.

Some stats. In a national study into incidents of child maltreatment in the US it was found that in 77.5% of cases the abuse was committed by a parent and in a further 10% was committed by a legal guardian, foster carer or partner of a parent: www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cb/cm2019.pdf#page=82

This isn't something those working with young people can or should ignore.

Don’t try and gas light me. I see you

I too think you may well be right there, Hugocat1. It's the kind of thing that people slap you down for being so utterly stupid to even suggest.... and then, a few years down the line, it quietly happens.

When one of my nephews was small, he was dressed up as Thomas The Tank Engine and I said to him, "Ooh, are you wearing your Thomas costume?" He furiously told me that, no, he was not dressed as Thomas; he was Thomas.

What any sensible adult would smile at and think 'aw, bless' nowadays can take on a deeply sinister turn when seized on by adults with certain motives and agendas. If a boy can insist that he IS a train, how much easier for him to have dressed up as Elsa or Dora, say, and thus insist that he IS a girl?

Children aren't allowed to play dress-up and make-believe any more, safe with adults there to keep them safe and to 'sandbox' them within the real world. If we indulge one aspect of a young child's fantasy play and credit them with a level of responsibility and understanding that they simply cannot have at that age, where will it end?

We already have a generation who are largely convinced that they are right and that anybody who disagrees with them is bad and deserves to be cancelled - it stands to reason that the 'cool' adults who indulge them and affirm them in everything without any safety barriers will be the ones they listen to and use as a 'control' to prove that the 'boring and bigoted' ones must be wrong.

I'm not trying to gas light you, your claim is preposterous and comes with no evidence. The idea that child protection charities are secretly working with trans people in a paedophile plot to remove the age of consent is pure conspiracy theory up there with the likes of QAnon.

Alienating children from their parents is grooming 101

in general parents protect their children. Children without parental protection are incredibly vulnerable. Just look at the outcomes for ‘looked after’ (ha) children

groups who actively seek to alienate children from their parents are highly suspect

What a non answer

please explain how perpetuating the idea that men think and feel one way, and women think and feel another does anything to break down the sexist stereotypes at the heart of patriarchy?

Are none of the world's governments run on patriarchal lines, then?

Last time I looked, a great many of them are desperate to push trans rights front and centre - denying obvious science, rewriting history and throwing safeguarding checks under the bus - regardless of how that directly impacts detrimentally on other groups, especially women and children.

And just to be clear, when I say trans rights, I am not referring to the same fundamental human rights that should be the entitlement of everybody, regardless of their own beliefs or how they choose to identify.

Who said anything about child protection services? We already have mermaids talking to children behind their parents backs and suggesting they move on an app that’s untraceable. This is ALREADY huge safeguarding issue.

So stop it with your faux ‘nothing to see here’ bs

Alienating children from their parents is grooming 101

Absolutely this - and exploiting the sad fact of the small proportion of properly abusive parents and extrapolating that to ALL parents who ever disagree with or overrule their children is wicked in the extreme.

Once we have an ingrained culture that assumes that parents are bigoted, mistaken, out of touch, purely wrong and in no way deserving of any respect or obedience, that leaves the way completely clear for anybody to come in and take their place - as long as they have a distinctly different message to bring.

Have you actually paid any attention to WHICH countries have enacted self ID?