Why? What is the endgame for TRAs

[Brefugee]

I keep wondering why this is all happening now. What was the actual trigger point of people like Nicola Sturgeon becoming so adamant that the rights of Trans people have to be promoted and fought for at this time?

Why is it desireable that GRCs be obtainable so quickly? Does it all go back to Foucault and his post-modernist cronies? What is it that Sturgeon and Trudeau and other governments who are falling over themselves to push a trans-agenda up to? what is in it for them?

To be clear: I'm not rabidly anti-trans and up to now it hasn't really impinged on my life in any other way (I did know two transwomen way back but have lost touch. I do know a couple of young transmen and they seem fine but i don't know them well). I am painfully aware, of course, that other people's lives are being hugely impacted by this (seemingly?) sudden surge in transwomen and am very keen, as a 2nd wave feminist, that women are protected and allowed to live their lives and achieve their full potential in any way they can/want to. (so I'm not TWAW - i'm in favour of either fully proper unisex spaces or 3rd spaces)

I just don't get why. Why now? Why Canada? Why Scotland? Why anywhere?

I don’t think a lot of TRAs want that.

most TRAs aren’t trans, it’s not really relevant to them and it’s a good excuse for whatever suits them- which is often misogyny.

if there is a backlash it will be interesting who defends and who moves on.

Bodily autonomy is an important part of challenging patriarchy.

Feeling so bad about your natural, healthy body that you need cosmetic surgery to navigate everyday life is the antithesis of both 'bodily autonomy' and 'challenging patriarchy'.
You may as well claim that not being able to leave the house without shaving and a full face of make up is 'bodily autonomy' or 'challenging patriarchy'.

The pharmaceutical/medical companies are RAKING it in selling surgries and medication. It is white literally a product of a capitalist society.

''your body is wrong so keep paying and you can buy extra bits, pay to cut stuff off and pay for medication your whole life''

How anyone can think it is anti-capitalist is beyond me.

Capitalism has always been telling us were wrong, we're ugly, we're fat, we're not good enough. That way we buy clothes, make-up, surgeries, diet plans, diet shakes etc, etc, etc

THE most anti-capitalist thing anyone can do is love and honour their body exactly as it is, and not pay anyone to change it.

@Thelnebriati We should absolutely be fighting patriarchal pressures which cause some people to hate their bodies whilst also recognising that gender dysphoria is a legitimate phenomena experienced by a small group of people which physical transition can help alleivate. And that ultimately we have the right to make our own decisions about our bodies.

Please don't move the goal posts.
If the goal is women's liberation, then freedom doesn't look like foot binding.

Are you opposed to all cosmetic surgeries? As in think they should be banned?

Go back and read our posts again and stop being disingenuous.

The pharmaceutical/medical companies are RAKING it in selling surgries and medication. It is white literally a product of a capitalist society.

Which is why part of the end game should be socialised healthcare in which profit plays no part - see also the end of capitalism.

I'm not being disingenuous, it's a genuine question, do you oppose all cosmetic surgery or only cosmetic surgery trans people may undergo?

personally I feel transpeople can have as much surgery as they want as long as they’re adults and can pay for it. A man with a mutilated penis and fake boobs is still a man, and a woman with a double mastectomy and a fake penis made out of the flesh of her arm is still a woman.

But we have socialised healthcare in the UK. We still can’t pay for cosmetic surgeries. And cosmetic surgeries should not be funded by the taxpayer if we have a NHS that cannot even treat seriously ill people. If you want cosmetic surgery, fund it yourself

"Which is why part of the end game should be socialised healthcare in which profit plays no part - see also the end of capitalism."

The NHS at least has given us the Cass Review.

Whether it's socialised healthcare (where the state pays) or private healthcare, the pharma/medical industries are still making a shit load of money, it just boils down to who is paying (collectively or individually). In both those situations there is likely a male CEO living it up on private jets and huge bonuses. And he wants you and all your mates to keep transitioning and keep rolling in all that cash.

The NHS carries out all kinds of cosmetic surgeries particularly if someone is in severe distress with people which gender dysphoria often are. And of course the NHS should be properly funded so it's not an either/or situation leading us to horrible I couldn't have this so they shouldn't be allowed that scramble to the bottom that seems all too prevalent these days.

So are you saying you need body dysmorphia to be trans? No one can have gender dysmorphia because gender is not real. that’s not what the TRA claim. Apparently that’s transphobic.

you say you want the end of capitalism and social healthcare. Ok, so who is going to fund the NHS? You do realise the NHS has to pay the drug companies and the manufacturers of medical equipment for the drugs and equipment used in these surgeries, so carrying out cosmetic surgeries is actually enabling capitalism? Maybe we could just use therapy to help people accept their bodies are their bodies?

The NHS carries out all kinds of cosmetic surgeries particularly if someone is in severe distress

dunno where you’ve got that from but it’s utterly untrue.

Maybe 20 years ago but not any more.

Yup. It’s very very rare for cosmetic surgery to be funded unless the patient has been in a disfiguring accident. Even women having mastectomies after breast cancer sometimes face a long wait to get reconstruction.

This is whats mad about this movement, is you have all these teenagers spouting nonsense such as 'transgenderism is anti-capitalist', when they have no idea what this actually means, and that in fact it is the complete opposite of reality.

I think teenagers have always thought they know much more than they actually do, and repeat cool and clever sounding phrases that they don't really understand. They used to just flounce upstairs in a huff on being proven wrong, but now they advise governments.

*see also the end of capitalism’

Trying not to laugh at the thought of a communist society that gives out free cosmetic surgery on request.

As if you’d get to pick what you look like under a regime that’ll only let you study uni subjects with job shortages 🤣

I'm not sure there is an endgame as such, to me it feels like a cart careening out of control down a mountain.

I think one issue is that made it possible was that there was already a rotting of democratic institutions, especially on the left. It's what allowed politics on the left to be so easily and quickly undermined, and so difficult to turn around and reconsider.

But I think maybe to understand we would have to look at id pol as a whole. Gender ideology is only one small part of that. I have wondered from time to time if the goal is the destruction of western democratic models of governance.

Some great answers here. Before reading this thread my answer would have been money ( Big Pharma) and transhumanism. Having read the thread I still think it’s those and all the other subsets of endgames and interests outlined above.

livvyposts And sexist stereo types is a fundamental part of the trans movement, The long hair dress you are a "women" and short hair trousers you are a "man" manta. So how will that work in your challenging the patriarchy bit?

That is so hilarious about the end of capitalism! Gender identity, being “trans” would not, could not exist without capitalism and it entirely serves capitalism. People being dissatisfied with their lots and spending money to fix themselves and assuage their yearnings is absolutely capitalism.

Patriarchy too! What could be more patriarchal than men telling women what we are, what we are allowed to do, where we are allowed to be and with whom, intimidating and humiliating us as a power trip or for amusement, denying us privacy, dignity, safety, the ability to compete in sports against those of our own sex so we might win, forcing us to lie about reality and to ignore our perceptions, instincts and boundaries.

Absolutely deluded on so many levels.

@livvyposts can you name one socialist or communist country where being trans, having surgery etc is fully funded by the state? I mean, Iran, they do give gay men and lesbians fully funded SRS, but this isn’t really a choice when the alternative is being thrown off a roof or stoned to death is it?

I can’t imagine this ever happening in the former Soviet Union, it would have been seen for what it is, Western decadence.