Page 4 | Woman harassed in women's bathroom by a gender critical woman who thinks she is trans, she is upset by the experience.

DdraigGoch · 30/10/2022 00:59

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 00:44

Absolutely! So (most of) the trans community belive that sex and gender are separated I think. So you are born 'male' (your sex) and normally want to be 'female' but you can only change your gender to be 'transwoman' bc chromosomes/sex can't be changed. This is why you would be called a 'cis' woman in those circles, to descibe that your sex is the same as your gender. Again, not saying you need to agree, just that's a lot of the line of thinking in the community.

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But for most things in life, you don't need a prefix for the standard version, only for the substitute. I was on holiday recently and I could safely presume that "bahn" means "railway" without it having to be specified that the term didn't include "replacement bus". If a rail replacement bus is where I wanted to be directed to, the sign had the prefix "ersatz" added.

It is likewise widely assumed that if you say "woman", that you do indeed mean "woman", you don't need to clarify that you aren't referring to a "transwoman". If I was a producer and asked my casting director to find a woman to play the role of Juliet, my response on being presented with Eddie Izzard would be "that's not what I asked for, I said 'find me a woman'". I shouldn't need to specify "ciswoman" for the casting director to understand what I wanted.

NotBadConsidering · 30/10/2022 00:59

marblemad · 29/10/2022 23:51

Having ACTUALLY watched the video it's obvious that the older woman harrassing her is deranged and out of order, being aggressive and abusive, discriminatory, demanding to know personal information on an obsessive level and standing outside of the cubicle waiting. Not okay.

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This was ACTUALLY a reference to how Marg expects us to believe what we are being told in this video but somehow, a few days ago, attempted to convince us that the images of the male person in a wig and skirt who exposed male genitals to children and then masturbated might not have been the images of this perpetrator, but may have been the victim instead.

Marg’s reality is different to the rest of us, so it’s important to check the veracity of all of MargaritaPie’s claims.

CrossStichQueen · 30/10/2022 00:59

I havent watched the video but does the accuser state that she is a gender critical woman?

IcakethereforeIam · 30/10/2022 00:59

@Discovereads glad to hear she wasn't physically hurt. I'm not okay with people being assaulted, even if they are blokes being where they don't belong.

That said, I still don't understand what this incident is meant to prove. This lady was harassed ergo men should be able to use women's toilets?

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 00:59

CountZacular · 30/10/2022 00:58

If you think about gender being something different from the body (and TRAs are very clear it’s not a medical/ of the body issue), then that means it’s something different - like a soul or some other entity. What else can it be - unless you have another definition?

And if you don’t believe in that type of religious/ ideological position, how can you believe in a gender?

So for me specifically, I can’t be Cis because I don’t have a gender as far as I’m aware - but would really love to hear a clear definition so I can know for sure.

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I'm honestly just going off what I've been told by friends/ trans people that I know. I appreciate hearing your point of view and your explanation.

VinoDino · 30/10/2022 01:00

None of which are installed in the entryway to the woman’s toilets. The only deterrence is a pitiful little logo of

Which should also be adhered to. I.e people with penises don't come in. Use your allocated toilet 🚹

Pixiedust1234 · 30/10/2022 01:00

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 00:57

I have friends that descibe themselves as 'agender' and would want me to use they/them pronouns bc they dont identify with their biological sex. My experience in life is probably different to yours and I ask you to explain things slightly more kindly and not assume I understand everything that you do, or that I'm saying things maliciously.

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But I'm not the one explaining, I thought you were. I'm asking you to define the word gender that you keep using because I don't understand what it is. Please be kind and explain.

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 01:01

DdraigGoch · 30/10/2022 00:59

But for most things in life, you don't need a prefix for the standard version, only for the substitute. I was on holiday recently and I could safely presume that "bahn" means "railway" without it having to be specified that the term didn't include "replacement bus". If a rail replacement bus is where I wanted to be directed to, the sign had the prefix "ersatz" added.

It is likewise widely assumed that if you say "woman", that you do indeed mean "woman", you don't need to clarify that you aren't referring to a "transwoman". If I was a producer and asked my casting director to find a woman to play the role of Juliet, my response on being presented with Eddie Izzard would be "that's not what I asked for, I said 'find me a woman'". I shouldn't need to specify "ciswoman" for the casting director to understand what I wanted.

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I agree completely, I had just assumed OP was saying 'cis' because they wanted to make it clear the lady in the bathroom wasn't trans and had every right to be in the bathroom.

DdraigGoch · 30/10/2022 01:02

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 00:52

But if men weren't invading women's spaces and shouting about it, would women even be alert to the possibility that someone in their space might be a man? Newsflash. That little woman sign 🚺 has never kept men out. Didn’t stop the man who followed me into the toilets and peeked over the top of the cubicle while I was weeing. And no, this wasn’t a transwoman. I’m not alone either, women have been raped by men in womens toilets. To blame this “alertness” on transwomen is pretty silly.

It's a bit like with terrorism. There are plenty of false alarms because a suspicious bag has been left somewhere. No one would bother to notice and report suspicious packages if terrorist attacks weren't a real threat.
We are not talking about suspicious objects, but suspicious people. And if you’re going to draw a terrorism parallel, then you’re arguing it’s ok to report anyone Muslimish wandering around airports because of “terrorism” just like you think it’s ok to report anyone mannish wandering into a womens toilet.

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How do you know that it wasn't a transwoman? Transwomen don't have to shave their beards, wear wigs and frilly dresses you know.

Woman harassed in women's bathroom by a gender critical woman who thinks she is trans, she is upset by the experience.

Over7billiongendersbut2sexes · 30/10/2022 01:04

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 01:01

I agree completely, I had just assumed OP was saying 'cis' because they wanted to make it clear the lady in the bathroom wasn't trans and had every right to be in the bathroom.

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You need to stop assuming that everyone who has not declared themselves trans is cis. You're asking people to be kind but you need to hear that feeling that you have a right to say people are cis based on assumptions associated with how they visually and verbally present is an aggressive act. No-one should ever be called cis unless they have said that that is what they call themselves.

ItsLateHumpty · 30/10/2022 01:05

I have found a new definition of gender…..

No, I still don’t understand 😭 nor does Twitter

twitter.com/Casey5122dark/status/1586117697963790341

§3(2)(d) [below] of the Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 purports to tell us what 'gender' means. Read it through and ask yourself if, having read it, you now know what gender actually means.
No? Me neither. It's not a definition.

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1586343242953818113

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 01:06

Over7billiongendersbut2sexes · 30/10/2022 01:04

You need to stop assuming that everyone who has not declared themselves trans is cis. You're asking people to be kind but you need to hear that feeling that you have a right to say people are cis based on assumptions associated with how they visually and verbally present is an aggressive act. No-one should ever be called cis unless they have said that that is what they call themselves.

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Okay fair enough! I didn't know anyone had a problem with it, so I will be more cautious in future. Not that I've ever called anyone cis.

Jarnsaxa · 30/10/2022 01:06

Well that's strange. I've watched the film and read the Twitter thread.
The victim neither looks male or sounds male at all so I can't understand how anyone would mistake her for a male.

The weird thing is though is when they're standing at the basins, it sounds like a male voice saying 'Hi'.

And why is the harassers face not shown?
I've never seen one of these 'karen' shaming videos before where the 'karens' face isn't shown

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 01:06

NotBadConsidering · 30/10/2022 00:59

This was ACTUALLY a reference to how Marg expects us to believe what we are being told in this video but somehow, a few days ago, attempted to convince us that the images of the male person in a wig and skirt who exposed male genitals to children and then masturbated might not have been the images of this perpetrator, but may have been the victim instead.

Marg’s reality is different to the rest of us, so it’s important to check the veracity of all of MargaritaPie’s claims.

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No Marg did not, I was on that thread and she only pointed out that the BTP cctv alert did not refer to the person in the pictures as a suspect. So while you can speculate this person is a suspect, the BTP haven’t identified them as such. Also, the BTP cctv alert did not specify the sex of the genitals exposed. She didn’t say they might have been a victim or the victim, just that they might not be a suspect given the wording of the BTP cctv alert.
www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/appeals/cctv-images-released-after-indecent-exposure--berkshire/

ItsLateHumpty · 30/10/2022 01:07

Jarnsaxa · 30/10/2022 01:06

Well that's strange. I've watched the film and read the Twitter thread.
The victim neither looks male or sounds male at all so I can't understand how anyone would mistake her for a male.

The weird thing is though is when they're standing at the basins, it sounds like a male voice saying 'Hi'.

And why is the harassers face not shown?
I've never seen one of these 'karen' shaming videos before where the 'karens' face isn't shown

🤔 all very good points….

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 01:08

DdraigGoch · 30/10/2022 01:02

How do you know that it wasn't a transwoman? Transwomen don't have to shave their beards, wear wigs and frilly dresses you know.

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Who are you talking about? You haven’t watched the video have you?

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 01:09

Jarnsaxa · 30/10/2022 01:06

Well that's strange. I've watched the film and read the Twitter thread.
The victim neither looks male or sounds male at all so I can't understand how anyone would mistake her for a male.

The weird thing is though is when they're standing at the basins, it sounds like a male voice saying 'Hi'.

And why is the harassers face not shown?
I've never seen one of these 'karen' shaming videos before where the 'karens' face isn't shown

Because she’s filming discreetly. She doesn’t want them to know they are being recorded.

Over7billiongendersbut2sexes · 30/10/2022 01:09

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 01:06

Okay fair enough! I didn't know anyone had a problem with it, so I will be more cautious in future. Not that I've ever called anyone cis.

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You did say that I would be called 'cis' in some circles and I find that offensive. However, I am pleased that you have taken this point on board.

CrossStichQueen · 30/10/2022 01:10

Discovereads I have admitted to not watching the video and have asked how do we know the accuser is a GC woman? Do they say so?

Sorry but I don't click on links so hoping someone can clarify.

Pixiedust1234 · 30/10/2022 01:10

One would almost think it could have been staged...but that would be a very unkind thing to think. And if nothing else ladies (the real sort) know how to be astonishingly kind. Even when their eyes say differently.

cofeetablebook · 30/10/2022 01:10

So it's ok for some women to be victims of the GC rage then, for the greater good?

Cool, cool.

Somuchgoo · 30/10/2022 01:11

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 00:57

I have friends that descibe themselves as 'agender' and would want me to use they/them pronouns bc they dont identify with their biological sex. My experience in life is probably different to yours and I ask you to explain things slightly more kindly and not assume I understand everything that you do, or that I'm saying things maliciously.

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I don't identify with my age or my weight - in my head I'm far younger and thinner.

It makes zero difference that in my mind I'm younger and thinner. It makes me better a decade younger or a size 8.

Whether you identify as the same sex or not makes zero difference which sex you are.

I'm still waiting for a definition of gender that isn't either circular or tried in stereotypes.

Over7billiongendersbut2sexes · 30/10/2022 01:12

CrossStichQueen · 30/10/2022 01:10

Discovereads I have admitted to not watching the video and have asked how do we know the accuser is a GC woman? Do they say so?

Sorry but I don't click on links so hoping someone can clarify.

We don't know. The OP feels entitled to assume that is how the person identifies.

DdraigGoch · 30/10/2022 01:12

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 00:54

Oh I see what you mean now! You're saying gender doesn't exist because we are all just our biological sex, and gender/sex are the same thing?

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No, we're saying that the state of being an adult human female makes one a woman, just like an adult ovine female is a "ewe", no matter what personality it has. A woman can wear overalls, be sexually attracted to other women and play shoot-em-up games without that meaning that she is in fact a man. Your sex is your biological reality, you can't change it. Your personality on the other hand is yours to evolve, and you should be free of any expectations to confine yourself to masculine or feminine interests.

If I was to say that "only boys play with toy soldiers" you'd call me out for perpetuating outdated stereotypes, right? Yet there are parents out there who see their daughter playing with toy soldiers and decide that child must really be a "girl in a boy's body".

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 01:13

IcakethereforeIam · 30/10/2022 00:59

@Discovereads glad to hear she wasn't physically hurt. I'm not okay with people being assaulted, even if they are blokes being where they don't belong.

That said, I still don't understand what this incident is meant to prove. This lady was harassed ergo men should be able to use women's toilets?

It proves what we’ve always known that it is impossible to enforce women only in womens toilets. The only thing keeping men out is them self-excluding.