Woman harassed in women's bathroom by a gender critical woman who thinks she is trans, she is upset by the experience.

[MargaritaPie]

twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1586295024672808961

I fear you may be confused about what facts are

facts are by definition not subjective

therefore the idea of alternative facts is rather ridiculous

perception is by definition subjective

therefore the idea of alternative perception is completely reasonable and frankly to be expected

I can't quite believe I'm spelling this out, but there you go

but it went whoosh, straight over your head, didn't it @Discovereads ?

Ok, did you miss the part where I said I advocate for third spaces? This is not news to me. I just want women to be safe from other women while they are in a public toilet.

@Discovereads One dubious video from a TRA and a couple of random MN posters and that's your evidence?!

There's been more women on here saying they have been challenged, didn't mind it and all was well once the misunderstanding was cleared up and remain unscarred by such an incident. As would I be in the name of safeguarding.

What do you mean “nope” that’s exactly what I said. TW in mens toilets has fuck all to do with women harassing other women in the womens toilets.

It really is. If you cant see that, its simply because you're not willing to acknowledge it. If men aren't allowed in womens toilets, then a woman wouldn't need to ask another person if they are male or female. The situation wouldn't arise.

And whose fault is that @Discovereads ? You’re the one wanting males to access female spaces. Even though that will cause distress to women. This video is fake though. We all know this. Why are you so invested in trampling over the boundaries of women who want single sex spaces? Why do you prioritise rage feelings of men over womens feelings?

🤣🤣🤣 You truly are special.

No the concept of “alternative perception” is similar to the concept of “alternative facts”. But it went whoosh straight over your head.

It doesn't get better when you repeat it.

I'd tell you to stop digging up but tbh you're showing yourself up nicely.

Why would it need enforcing?

Why can’t males just stay out of female space without being forced to do so?

Such a ban would be unenforceable, you see that right?

It shouldn't be. It should be very very easy to ban males from womens toilets and spaces.

You want them to be safe from other women but don’t care if they’re at risk from males. Gotcha.

"Where is the evidence to suggest the woman doing the insulting is gender critical?"

Indeed.

Whether the Toilet Video is staged or actually happened, the only rational reading of the situation is that the Bully is not female but is a man posing as a woman.

The Bully

The Bully says:

"I have gotten called out several times for being in the Men's Room, so you are going to be called out for whatever you're doing. So what are you identifying as today?"

Who is massively more likely to claim to "have gotten called out several times for being in the Men's Room"?

A woman, "GC" or otherwise, is not even going to have been using the Men's Room in the first place.

However, we hear time and time again from trans activists the claim that it is "dangerous" for TW (males identifying and/or attempting to present as women) to use The Gents as they are attacked or chased out.

This claim is contradicted by court reports and sightings, which almost all involve women being attacked in The Ladies (or more often in mixed-sex toilets) by men, whether claiming to be women themselves or not.

Meanwhile, verified accounts of TW being attacked in or chased out of The Gents are rare as hen's teeth.

So, faked scenario or "this actually happened", the role of the Bully is not taken by a "GC woman" but more likely by a man posing as a woman.

(It is not possible to know if this is a TW so, not wishing to be reported for the heinous crime of defaming TW, I have gone for the description "man posing as a woman". )

If this is faked then it is not possible to know whether they male, female, trans or otherwise - but if it is real then 100% what they are NOT is a "GC woman".

The Victim

The Victim is very obviously female, as can be seen from the follow-on videos on TikTok, although she possibly imagines that having a short haircut means she will be mistaken for a man or a boy?

In the "Toilet Video" her speech is weirdly stilted. It sounds like someone reading lines for a play but as that is implausible I am going for her trying to remember her lines or just really amateurish improvisation.

1 Video tweeted by Montgomerie www.tiktok.com/@creatingjayrose/video/715934312895519466

2 Follow-up video - very dark but voice is clear www.tiktok.com/@creatingjayrose/video/7159815373699829034

3 Follow-up video
www.tiktok.com/@creatingjayrose/video/7159825336815996206

4 Followup video
www.tiktok.com/@creatingjayrose/video/7160074728684735786

I went more into why this seems like it has been staged in an earlier post:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4665955-cis-woman-harassed-in-womens-bathroom-by-a-gender-critical-woman-who-thinks-she-is-trans-she-is-upset-by-the-experience?page=3&reply=121122997

At that time I thought The Bully was just spouting gibberish with an outside chance that they were a man posing as a woman. On reflection, whether real or faked, the only way it does makes sense is if the The Bully is a man posing as a woman. So NOT a "GC woman".

There is still and outside chance is that it is a woman who makes a habit of choosing to go into The Gents for a pee (why???) and getting chased out and who has also bought in to all the identity bollocks wholesale. If so, she might be crazy but there is still ZERO chance this is a "GC woman".

There’s more evidence. Do some reading on the issue instead of denying it happens and going off on tangents about TW in mens toilets.

You still haven't answered the question? I have no clue, or desire, to know what a "cis" woman is. I'm simply stating if you have a cock and balls, you have no business being in a ladies toilet. If you are indeed a woman... You know, born with a vulva and a cervix, then obviously you are a female, not sure what the "cis" has to do with anything?! I'll go first... I am a female, I was born a female, I identify as a female, I have a vagina, and I use the ladies toilets. Your turn?

let's step this through

bogs are provided by an organisation, right?

they put a sign on the door, saying 'Men' and one on the other saying 'women'

they are legally entitled to do that

they are saying 'we expect men to go in here, and women to go in there'. and people who don't respect that will be asked to leave

but now you get men who enjoy role playing as women muddying the water. going in the women's bogs spices up their role play. it's edgy and fun. why can't they go in there?

what should happen is women clock them, either ask them to leave and they fuck off, or complain to the establishment providing the bogs and they're asked to fuck off and not do it again

that's how it used to go down. let's just do that again

no more posters in the women's about not worrying if you see a fella in there

simple innit? no need for any law other than one which allows establishments to provide single sex toilets

Who is doing that? The OP? I certainly am not.

You clearly missed Ladybrrrd's posts.

You can abhor harassment and recognise it is happening because of GC women being emboldened by extremists

Your DARVO and gaslighting is absolutely fucking disgusting. The harassment is happening because men are being emboldened by gender ideologist extremists.

There were plenty of females in the government that were full participants in this & agreed to it.

Yes, HANDMAIDEN females.

In 2020 research conducted as part of NatCen's British Social Attitudes survey found that 66% of women said they were comfortable with a transgender person using a female bathroom.

Except that is not at all true. Evidence shows that when women are told 97% of these trans women retain their penis and testicles, the %age against is around 91%. It has climbed higher since the WiSpa and Lia Thomas debacle. So much has happened since 2020, but it's interesting that you are so incredibly desperate to make the case for men in womens toilets and spaces. So much for being a 'feminist'.

You know what? Every post you make, you show how much a fervent MRA you are. No woman would argue for men in vulnerable womens spaces. You are as much a feminist as I am the Pope, and I am the wrong religion and wrong sex.

I'm genuinely astonished that you still don't get that you've made yourself look a bit of a tit

I am special though

<preens>

Of course I care. That’s not what third spaces are?! You’re new to this aren’t you? Full of piss and vinegar, short on sense and comprehension.

Except that is not happening. What is happening, is the harassment of women in womens toilets by men and TRAs.

And yes, you are ever so clearly a TRA, but more than that, an MRA.

@Discovereads There’s more evidence. Do some reading on the issue instead of denying it happens and going off on tangents about TW in mens toilets.

Well if there's so much evidence link it here. I don't believe there is so I'm not going to go on a hunt which I know isn't going to lead me anywhere. Or I'm going to find propaganda by TRAs. If you want to link this 'evidence' go ahead. I believe, like others have said, have been challenged but it's ended well, for a good reason.

Speaking of tangents, where is this evidence that it's really unsafe for transwomen to be in male toilets? That's where they belong. It's not going off on a tangent to state that.

Lol you are transparent. You are as much a centrist on this as I am the Pope, or as much as Boris Johnson is a far left greeny anarchist.

And I'm not "bullying" anyone. I give zero fucks what anyone wants to identify as, crack on with whatever suits you, in your day to day life. BUT, when it comes to the use of sex segregated spaces, go with what's between your legs, for the safety and dignity of all women. I have two daughters who I'd like to grow up not worrying about who or what they may encounter when entering what should be a safe, designated, female only space.

The words from her mouth are line by line from the GC playbook.

More bullshit. The words from her mouth were classic TRA lines. None of what she said was anything even remotely anything a GC person would say.

That, is what gave it all away.

@Discovereads YOU were the one who brought up that transwomen had to use the women's as it was too unsafe in the males.

Actually no. I’ve just been to the toilet and I didn’t like vinegar. I am short yes, but I’m fully sensible and my comprehension is excellent. You’re the one saying women are more at risk from other women then from men who wish to LARP as women. You expect women to care about TW feeling unsafe in male toilets when they are the ones disrespecting women by entering womens toilets when women have made it clear they do not want males in there.

Were they told in this disreputed 'survey' that around 97% of trans women retain their penis and testicles? Um....I bet........ NO! A lot, a LOT, has happened since that er, 'survey' in 2020.

A.... LOT. Hence the uprising of women since Lia Thomas.