I'm not a woman - which facilities should I use

[Whatiswrongwithmyknee]

Genuinely interested to hear what supporters of gender ideology would recommend here. I am biologically female but do not identify as a woman. I am officially trans though in reality I don't think I am the sort of person Stonewall meant to refer to in their definition of trans (I am gender critical - which for those who have been misled by some made-up definitions, to me means that sometimes sex, rather than gender, matters. It is not an anti-trans stance).

The question is - which facilities should I use? I should not be in the ladies if that is defined by identity but using the men's does not feel right either. How do gender ideologists suggest I negotiate this?

Use whichever you feel comfortable using ?

Fuck off out of the disabled loo if you aren't disabled. People like me actually need it.

This

Toilets based on sex not gender identity.
However I see your point I saw a Herschel advert the other day for those who identify as women. I don't identify as a woman so that means I'm not eligible to apply! www.mitalent.ac.uk/The-Herschel-Programme

If it was just your choice what would you prefer?

I'd recommend the female toilets just because they are probably safer for you and you also wouldn't make anyone feel threatened in there (if you are presenting as or mostly as female). I think a third gender neutral space would be great.

I have no idea what it feels like to identify as a woman because I actually am one.

You'll have to ask a woman with a penis what it feels like to identify as a woman, I'm afraid. And if you could let us know what they say, I'd appreciate it.

use the womens toilets

You are an adult human female = woman.

Anything else is just navel gazing and nonsense.

Use the women's loos

The title of your post states "I'm not a woman", your post states you are "biological female". Make your mind up and please get help with your apparent inability to face reality. You are evidently a woman who wants to be "different" with all it's attendant praise and adulation from the rainbow brigade.

The OP is I think asking a philosophical type question/musing on where Stonewall definitions leave us. They want a response from gender believers hoping to draw them into a debate which proves them wrong/idiots. Am I right OP? Unfortunately wrong place to ask.

Hope this doesn't get me deleted - I never post here and I'm not 100% on the rules.

I would join the chorus saying that you are biologically female. Therefore you use the ladies toilets. Because they are sex segregated not gender segregated.

This is my reasoning:
The reason for sex segregation is safety - gender identity of woman does not instantly remove the biologically male factors that create a risk for women. I believe that the majority of men are fine, and not a threat. The same, I'm sure, are the majority of trans women. However - the minority (of all males, not isolating trans women) that present a risk are real and present such a risk that sex segregated facilities are necessary. Males that are a risk and wish to invade women's spaces will use gender ideology to do so in a socially acceptable way. I am not saying that all men who nefariously enter women's spaces are trans - I am saying that predatory males will lie to get access!

As to identity. I am GC. My sex is female. I am biologically XX. My identity is 'grannyachingsshepherdshut' I do not have a gender identity because I believe I have a sex and that, as you say, gender identity is just perpetuation of harmful stereotypes.

Sometimes I wear makeup.
Sometimes I wear mens jumpers.
My male DP always takes the bins out.
I can drive a digger.
I accept men holding doors for me.
I hold doors for men.

Which of those makes me woman? Or man? In my opinion - they're all irrelevant.

I do not consider myself 'trans' (I am aware that stonewall definition probably would, but I also think they wouldn't want me even if I came with a free gold clock...)

I use the ladies loo.

I believe that harmful stereotypes are only destroyed by people breaking them. By people who don't wish to be constrained by stereotypes stepping outside of the polarity of male/female and identifying as agender, it feels that those stereotypes are perpetuated. A reasoning of 'I'm not girly, so that means I can't be a woman, I must be something else because all "women" are girly'.

I genuinely believe that the majority of people don't have a gender identity - they just know what sex they are.

I am absolutely not taking the piss. I am wanting gender ideologists to tell me where I fit in their worldview.

We just all want to take a piss with as little fuss and as quickly as possible without been harassed.

Take your histrionics to the mens and see how you get on.

Also, op, a toilet is a functional thing. Use whichever best suits the function you need to perform. There is no need to let your use of the toilets define you or say anything about your identity.

Oh for gods sake. How ridiculous. You’re female. Use the ladies.

you’ve had children FFS - how can you possibly not be female 🙄

To answer your question, it doesn’t “feel” like anything, anymore than being green-eyed or brown-haired or human “feels” like anything. There may be experiences in those groups that chime with me, and other experiences from people within those groups that are wider or narrower than my own and they don’t quite chime with me.

But existences doesn’t have to be labelled and identified like this, with feelings that do or don’t validate today’s (very narrowly defined by a very, very, very small group) labels.

Just live your life, accept facts as reality, and don’t let patriarchal bullshit get in your head.

Exactly.

"refusing to let your sexed body define you" is such a stupid statement (sorry to be blunt) I don't let my being a woman define me either, it's just what I am. Women make up 50% of the population give or take, acting like that one thing ( our sexed bodies) "define us" is ridiculous, there's much more to everyone than that one thing we share with billions of other people. What part of being a woman do you think you're rejecting by trying to identify out of the sex class? You've used that biology in the most female way possible by having children, what makes you not a woman now? Asking people not to refer to you as "her"? Not wearing make up? Cutting your hair? I'm really curious, none of these things make someone a woman

This makes a lot of sense. Thank you for posting.

I do not consider myself 'trans' (I am aware that stonewall definition probably would, but I also think they wouldn't want me even if I came with a free gold clock...)

😃

Welcome to FWR @GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut !

refusal to let my sexed body define me

It doesn't define you. It just defines what sex you are. That's all.

If you have blue eyes, it doesn't define who you are. It defines what colour of eyes you have. Nothing else.

My view is that everyone has an unchanging biological sex and that they should used the sex-based services of that sex. There is literally nothing to negotiate!

One caveat

I do not think that it is right for a woman to impose herself in a men's space, but a trans man who does a fairly good job of passing might be doing more harm in the right space than they do in the wrong space, so trans men are the one example where using the opposite sex spaces might be acceptable. To be clear - I am talking about toilets - healthcare needs to be female based. Gay saunas - unless you really hate men and enjoy rejection stay out of those.

I would simultaneously fight for the right of all transmen to use women's spaces, and the right of women to keep out trans men who are perceived to be male, even if only by a small percentage of women. This is the one tricky thing.

If trans people were to make a case for why they should have third spaces then I might advocate for those, but to be honest I can't imagine the trans community being able to convince me of that. They seem to be interested mainly in forcing others to validate them, so I don;t believe the trans community wants them. They'd be expensive. They're a no go.

Maybe the answer is to do nothing and wait for the trend to pass (if the paedophile scandals don;t get it first).

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are a woman.

I genuinely believe that the majority of people don't have a gender identity - they just know what sex they are.

This.

I'm convinced that the only people who genuinely believe they have a gender identity are people who identify as trans or non binary or whatever.

Try asking someone who identifies as "cis" how they know they are a man or a woman.

"I just know. I have always known I am a boy/man. I don't feel like I have an identity which contradicts my sex. That means I am a cis man."

No it doesn't.

The absence of dysphoria is not an identity.

You know you are a man because you have a penis.

Exactly this. I am a woman because my sex is female. I’m not a woman because I have womanly thoughts, react in womanly ways, feel like an earth goddess, revel in feminine pursuits. My body is the one I’ve got. My mind is me (and the product of all the social contagion, culture, upbringing, influence of friends and colleagues, and my own personal sprinkles). I would say that ANYTHING I do, or that any other woman does, is a “woman thing” because women can do it.

Women are people who do whatever they happen to want to do, and happen to be female. I wholeheartedly reject any assumptions that I like particular things, hold particular opinions, am good or bad at certain things just because I’m female. Still happy to use the womens loos because - despite gender ideology trying to make male/female all about the feeling inside your head - I maintain that it’s about what sex you are. It’s literally the ONLY thing we have in common. Speak out against assumptions based “gender” - loads of us are doing that, acting it, etc, and have been for decades / centuries. You’re not alone. Many, many women are with you. Calling ourselves women doesn’t mean we agree with gendered assumptions.

Can't put it better than this really.