I'm not a woman - which facilities should I use

[Whatiswrongwithmyknee]

Genuinely interested to hear what supporters of gender ideology would recommend here. I am biologically female but do not identify as a woman. I am officially trans though in reality I don't think I am the sort of person Stonewall meant to refer to in their definition of trans (I am gender critical - which for those who have been misled by some made-up definitions, to me means that sometimes sex, rather than gender, matters. It is not an anti-trans stance).

The question is - which facilities should I use? I should not be in the ladies if that is defined by identity but using the men's does not feel right either. How do gender ideologists suggest I negotiate this?

@GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut Great post 👏

Ignore the 'Stonewall definition.' They are a biased, untrustworthy organisation who care nothing for women's rights and safety. Use the women's facilities, because you are female.

I do not ever want people to feel justified in assuming that I align myself with sexist stereotypes just because of the facilities I use.

Who is going to do that? People go in these facilities to use the loo, not to 'feel justified in assuming' that some random person 'aligns themselves with sexist stereotypes.'

To me it feels like a refusal to let my sexed body define me.

Ironically, you are doing exactly that by deciding your body isn't what you wanted because you believe it doesn't connect with how you want to dress, behave or think/feel in what you believe to be 'female ways.

There are of course many women who say, 'yes I'm a woman, an adult human female, and I will wear and do whatever I like with no reference to stereotypes.' This is women claiming freedoms for themselves, rather than thinking they can't do it if they're female. Feminism isn't about rejecting being female, it's the opposite.

Unexpected reaction to my post - thank you

Just go into a cubicle, lock the door and do what you need to do.

No-one else needs to know what gender you identify with, are medically described as or what you feel like on that day.

Your thread title is incorrect. You ARE a woman. You may not feel like one. You may believe yourself not to be one. But biologically you are a woman. Your sex is female. Therefore, you should use the women's facilities.

It makes me so angry that people are advocating for ‘third space’ toilets or spending any money at all pandering to this crap when there are so few accessible toilets for people with disabilities who don’t have the luxury of pondering whether they feel comfortable in a certain toilet or not because there isn’t even one they can use.

Personally? As womens toilets are cubicles…plus I’ve lived in France where there is a far less uptight attitude…for instance if the ladies loo closed then the women walk into the mens…past the pissoirs where the men are standing weeing and just go in the cubicles….because that’s what adults do….we don’t stand around pointing saying…’oooh…Willy’. So for me…use where you are happiest.

Use the ladies. They'll be too busy peeing to notice your 'gender'
No one cares 🤷‍♀️

This may have been answered upthread, but I'm working today and don't have time to RTFT.

What do you mean by 'officially trans' OP? Do you have a GRC? If not, who's stamped your trans ID papers?

You say you don't feel comfortable with either choice and you seem to place too much emphasis on gender regarding your personality. I think counselling would be the best course.

I personally don't "feel" like a woman, I am just me. I use the women's toilets because that is my sex and regardless of how I look I have just as much right to be there as anyone else.

I mean, I sort of agree and sort of disagree.

I don't think disabled people who actually need accessible toilets should have to share with people who believe that they can't use the toilets for their own sex because of their "gender identity". And I don't think women should have to share toilets with any male people, however they believe they identify.

But trans people aren't going anywhere.

We can tell them that no one actually has an identity which matches their genitalia, that that isn't something which actually exists, until we are blue in the face. They won't listen.

So I think new facilities should offer male, female, unisex and accessible spaces as part of the design. And in the meantime, perhaps men's spaces should all be made unisex.

Ignore the 'Stonewall definition.' They are a biased, untrustworthy organisation who care nothing for women's rights and safety. Use the women's facilities, because you are female.

Agree. They made the trans umbrella so wide that they accidentally sheltered all us unladylike terves under it!

They are clueless.

Toilets are not gendered but sex based. Your sex is female, regardless of what your gender is.

But if it would make you feel more comfortable you could start a campaign for a third option, neutral toilets.

You’re female. You use female toilets. It’s not that hard.

I agree. It’s batshit.

'I personally don't "feel" like a woman'

What would 'feeling like a woman' mean anyway? I'm a woman, I work in a team of 15 people, most of us are female. We are all different people - different interests, different strengths, different shortcomings, different communication styles, different ways of presenting ourselves. The only thing we all have in common is our sex and our job title

How do you know this? I worked in a gender re-assignment clinic…and many trans people often don’t have the same hormones, brain patterns and in some cases there are very blurred lines with genitalia. Telling someone ‘well, you’ve got all the bits, you must be a woman’ doesn’t help when that persons brain says otherwise.
This is really an area of medicine and social science where we are learning more daily. The public can make life easier for trans….by accepting…..or difficult, because they have a fixed idea in their head that belongs with the last century and bears little relation to science….but it makes themselves feel more comfortable.

And what about the rest of us?

Do our feelings not matter?

You do realise that a trans woman's hormones and brain patterns are not visible to women using the women's toilets, right?

All we see is a man.

more changing places too please!

www.independentliving.co.uk/changingplaces/what-makes-a-changing-places-facility/

You are using a toilet, quickly popping in for a Pee. Stop overthinking it. You are biologically female and therefore using the ladies loos applies to you. You know this. You’ve grown up in this world and understand the basics of what toilet to use. Why have you spent so much time on this? Genuinely I really am wondering? Also, what do you mean when you say you ‘don’t identify as a woman’? What makes up the identity of a woman? Gender stereotypes? Here’s something radical, why don’t you just ignore those like the majority of us do?

The fact that you are not comfortable in the gents proves you have a gender identity that is women

No, it doesn't 😆

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee as you're non binary, my suggestion is you use whichever loos you feel most comfortable with using. However, note that if I saw you in the women's loos I wouldn't be speculating on your gender identity, I probably would barely notice you tbh (as I would anyone).

Vagina, then female toilets. Unless you look SUPER male.

The only purpose of female toilets is to protect women from sexual attacks 🤷🏻‍♀️ (from glares all the way to rap3). So, if I ask you the question: "are you scared of being attacked by a man?"'and your answer is yes and if I ask you "are you scary to other women?" And your answer is no, then you're welcomed with open arms ☺️ even if you're already transitioning.

Telling someone ‘well, you’ve got all the bits, you must be a woman’ doesn’t help when that persons brain says otherwise.

toilets are for ‘bits’ (aka genitals) not for ‘brains’

HTH

OP is correct that Stonewall's definition of trans applies to 99% of humans. Very few of us "feel" like a woman or a man, very few people believe in a gender identity. The vast majority of humans just know they are a male or a female.

The answer clearly is for everywhere to have 7 billion toilets, one for each of us

Common sense has left many people.