To ask DC’s school about gender identity

[CanStopWillStop]

I am going to view a prospective primary prep school for DD.

It’s a very popular all-girls school so admissions are over subscribed. I have a list of pretty standard questions, however I also want to ask what they are teaching the children about gender or gender identity.

I also want to ask whether they would admit trans girls (born male) in the school.

There is no mention of this in the prospectus however DH thinks it’s a bad idea to ask.

AIBU to ask these types of questions?

I guess it depends on how big it is.......

Did this thread start of in AIBU and get moved to the naughty step?

YANBU OP.

You are absolutely right that it is important to know what young impressionable children are being taught about their bodies and what is real. Equally if you want a single sex education and are willing to pay for it then you are well within your rights to ask if that is what you are actually going to get from any particular institution. You are doing your due diligence as a mother and choosing the educational establishment which you feel will best suit your daughter.

Thanks, and I hadn’t realised the thread was moved from AIBU, does this happen a lot?

Why has this been moved to the feminist board.
indoctrination of vulnerable children is everyone’s problem.

It happens all the time. Not allowed to discuss anything related to this issue anywhere else on Mumsnet apparently.

and yes Gymrabbit I agree with you 100% indoctrination of everyone’s children, just like other safeguarding issues is everyone’s responsibility and concerns all of us.

In a girls’ school every subject is 100% a girls’ subject. Physics is a girls subject, Music is a girls subject, Maths is a girls subject, Art is a girls subject.

A girl is top of every class and wins at every sport.

it’s liberating and attitude forming.

Why wait til 11 to give our girls that experience?

Welcome to the Sex and Gender naughty step, OP!

@DappledOliveGroves those sound like deeply unpleasant experiences, I’m sorry you had to go through them.

But I’ve had friends who have had the same from gay men, a lot, and I’m not starting the LBT Alliance now am I? And lest we forget the furore about allowing teaching about homosexuality or - god forbid, allowing gays in schools in case they ‘corrupt’ or try to sleep with people of the same sex. Thankfully we’ve moved on, except of course in many of those religious schools you seem to unironically prefer - honestly, I don’t know how any gay or bi person could even consider sending their kid to one.

You’re really no different. I hope you reflect on that, and that it makes you uncomfortable
enough to think a little deeper about your impact on other people.

I'm currently looking at private secondary schools for my DD. No GDST ones near me unfortunately. How should I phrase the question?

Sexual orientation and gender identity are entirely different.

Gender identity ideologues deliberately engaged in forced teaming with LGB organisations in an attempt to advance their agenda.

A person who is same sex attracted does not require the rest of society to change our language to accommodate that attraction.

People who are same sex attracted do not require medication or surgery.

We don’t put children into boxes of sexual orientation which put them on a pathway to lifelong medication, sterility and sexual dysfunction.

Gay men do not demand access to women’s toilets, changing rooms, prisons, refuges and hospital wards.

Same sex attraction cannot coexist with gender identity. Gender identity theory demands same gender attraction takes the place of same sex attraction, just as it demands gender identity takes precedence over sex everywhere else in society. Gender identity requires massive societal changes to replace sex with gender identity in every sphere.

OP of course YANBU. If you are opting for a single sex school then it matters it is single sex. It is not a small thing for your daughter to be gaslit that boys are really girls, to be told having boundaries is bigotted and she must undress in front of boys. To be taught psuedoscientific mumbo jumbo. And let's not forget that despite pp throwing out accusations of 'homophobia', that pride/rainbow flags now represent a hugely homophobic movement where homosexual women are accused of being sexual racists if they refuse to date men. If your daughter turns out to be a lesbian then gender ideology is the new section 28 that attempts to outlaw same sex attraction and replace it with gender attraction.

Glad you find it funny and completely irrelevant to allow males a free pass to female only spaces. After all, nothing untoward ever happens to girls and women around men does it? 🙄

@Lovelyricepudding i enjoy when people throw out something that other people have said, entirely uncritically, and attempt to pass it as their own.

No, transgender people are not trying to abolish homosexuality. Maybe one trans person said something stupid once, and it got latched onto as being the gospel of all trans people’s views, but I know not a single trans person who would ever thing anyone who isn’t attracted to someone must have sex with them. Pick a group of people and I’ll find someone who has said something equally stupid, and that equally doesn’t represent the views of everyone in their class or group.

You know what most trans people want? The same as everyone else. To be able to live their bloody lives. The hysteria people like you present is no different at all to the way people actually persecuted - and indeed still do persecute - gay people. I have heard the arguments amongst the ultra religious and ultra conservative; “the gays are brainwashing our children to become perverts and soon heterosexuality will be abolished!”

You are them, and they are you.

I wouldn't.

I teach my kids whatever I see fit about this type of issue. I want the school to educate them academically.

@ Eellet:
Then let trans identifiying men leave women well alone, by your own standards.
Quote, adapted:

"You know what most trans people women want? The same as everyone else. To be able to live their bloody lives. The hysteria people like you present is no different at all to the way people actually persecuted - women and girls.

Girls' schools need to be girls' schools. For girls. I applaud OP for seeking to protect her daughter.

Also, this OP was moved from AIBU to the Wimmin's Naughty Step. We really do have monitors who don't like women getting together to talk.

Maybe one trans person said something stupid once

It wasn't a trans person being quoted there, it's the CEO of Stonewall, selling other lesbians down the river. In a recent tribunal a lawyer said lesbians not including MTF trans people as sexual partners was like "apartheid".

And as for trans people saying homophobic things, it certainly isn't only one. Here's a thread I created here going back to 2018 collating social media.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3294339-cotton-ceiling-evidence-thread

OP does not say she's looking for an anti-trans schools. She would seem quite happy for transboys to be there, just wants it to be an actual girls school. As she said, there is evidence that girls benefit from single sex ed so making it mixed sex by admitting transgirls rather defeats the purpose.

@BrrrGettingColder I wholeheartedly agree that’s what women want. Every trans person I know - and I think I can argue I know an amount disproportionate to the average person - wants the same for women too.

There is no Pope of Trans that speaks for them all. Another PP has made my point for me by complaining that one of the main perpetrators in their eyes is the head of stonewall, who is not trans.

There are genuine anti women demons to be beaten, and they are almost all men. Why not concentrate on the people who have actual power, rather than the powerless. The idea there is some trans lobby effectively making shit worse for women is nonsense, they are a tiny percentage of the population, and zero percent of pretty much any western Legistature.

But yeah, the internets tells you they’re the bad guys because a minuscule minority of people claiming to be trans have done awful things (I’m rather reminded that every time there’s a terrorist attack the right wing press screams ‘why aren’t Muslims speaking up?!’, when of course many do, and 99.99999% have no connection to the perpetrator). No need to think for yourself now that you’ve joined the lynch mob.

FYI, not trans myself.

Do you think most trans people think TW should not be in women's sports, prisons, menopause support groups, and rape crisis centres, and think that the word woman should only refer to biological women and lesbian only to biological women attracted to biological women? If so, great, and they should speak up more and against the activists who say otherwise. If no, then they are stopping women living their lives.

Bugger your word salad.

As a woman, I would prefer that men, male-born individuals, keep their male selves out of spaces for women and girls, because they are men. Women have rights too. Or should have, but people like you think we should not have rights, what with us being merely cunty women.

"Gender identity" is completely baffling. Might as well as "star sign".

and they are almost all men

This thread is about primary school aged girls, in a girls school.

A single sex school for females.

The reason we want single sex spaces for female is because of the point YOU made.

one male in a female space and it becomes a mixed sex space.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee I can only
speak about people I know, of course, but yes most trans people I know would agree with most of that.

As to the ‘speaking up more’, they’re a bit busy being attacked constantly, both physically and verbally, to do that I’m afraid. They’ve got enough on their plate, what with the disproportionate suicide rate, lack of appropriate services and so on, to be entering into this kind of debate.

@BrrrGettingColder disappointing you resort to this kind of vulgar display, but ok. Spent quite a decent chunk of my life advocating for gay rights, and women’s rights. You know, actually doing something practical. I can only assume the sum total of your activism has been tonight, on this forum.