sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

Haha, you must be kidding. Why don't you ask them, instead of a bunch of women on mumsnet who have never even heard of them.

There could be a million reasons why they were there. Some of them negative, some of them positive. The point is, they've got nothing to do with Posie and her message.

And are you ever going to address that actually they have links to a prominent transactivist?

it won't be the first time. We've had TRAs tell us in advance that they've bought tickets and showed up to a feminist meeting in London, and then they misrepresented it afterwards.

It's not exactly a novel strategy. What's disappointing is the number of women who seem to want it to happen, to discredit Posie.

Yeah, well, she's right. I don't want someone like her speaking for me tbh. Harms the GC cause.

JB and other feminist journalists write for the Spectator, Mail, Spiked because the left won't touch them. It's the only way they can get published.

And this is a massive part of the problem. It's bloody hypocritical to complain that GC women are turning to the Right for support when the Left is standing there not just with its fingers in its ears going 'lalalala' but is actually attacking and abusing such women as 'bigots' and 'fascists' and claiming that they are 'literally violent'.

I hate what the Tories are doing to the economy.
But I despise what the Left are doing to women.

I no longer give a fuck.

we’re going to need a bigger boat!

This whole event has given me the final push I needed to happily sail away, rather than cling to the rock of lefty Labour do gooders (who won’t do any good anyway seeing as they’ve abandoned economic left policies and are tinkering about with neoliberal ones)

Harms the GC cause

What’s the GC cause then? Because I thought it was ‘humans can’t change sex’ and spreading the word so that everyone feels safe enough to say out loud ‘a dress is just a dress and a boy in a dress is still a boy’.

The name calling is like water off a ducks back, I no longer give a fuck.

Quite. The resounding irony though, is without all this amplification, Posie's rallies would go a lot more unremarked.

People don't generally flock to meetings where women talk about their negative experiences at the hands of men. Because patriarchy doesn't give a fuck. They'd be talking to the hand.

Without the howls of TRA fury requiring a police presence, and some prominent feminists taking indignant exception to her process, she wouldn't be any where near as well known.

And this is just a hunch, but I imagine she isn't entirely unaware of the phenomenon

Fortunately, you can do something about that. If you're female, you can just take the microphone at one of her rallies.

You can be your own billboard.

The name calling is like water off a ducks back, I no longer give a fuck.

Yep. This whole debacle has tipped me over the edge. I've ordered a load of stuff from Posie's website and I'm going to 'be the billboard' and if fascists hear my message then GREAT I'm glad because what's my message? Stop mutilating children; stop fucking with kids' heads; men are not women; keep men out of women's spaces.

I cannot for the life of me understand why you want to limit the number or type of people allowed to hear this message to those who already fecking agree with you about everything else! Grow up and stop being so bloody dim!

Quite. The resounding irony though, is without all this amplification, Posie's rallies would go a lot more unremarked.

This is so true and it entertains me no end. Its a sad fact that very few people would turn up to listen to women speak but the people who hate us most are the ones that give us the most publicity. News outlets would not report on the event if the TRA's didn't behave so appallingly.

So these RW groups are local to Brighton. They haven't been to other SFW meetings in other parts of the country but they come to their local one in Brighton and you wonder why. Have you not answered your own question there?

If they turned up to one of your meetings they'd be shown the door. Isn't that because you meet in places where there are doors - a closed area where you can expel someone and keep the hoi polloi out. You do realise you can't do that in a open to the public outdoor space, I'm sure.

I don't understand your Trump hat comment. Sorry, I can't make sense of it. Yes, everyone knows the Trump slogan. And? You do realise there were a plethora of pastiches on that slogan stuck on hats. Do you think the general public is too dumb to know the difference between the original and a piss take? Do you think wearing one will make people think you are a Trump republican? In the UK, where Trump is a widely derided figure?

By the way, do you have any idea what the political left is doing to women's rights in the US? Do you realise the Democrats are more right wing than the Tories. Do you understand what has happened and what will happen under their watch to women and children? Are you ok with that because at least it's not Trump? Do you understand the attitude of the political left in this country, in Canada, in NZ, in Australia etc. Women's "morals" and "boundaries" about who they will work with have driven them away from the left, because the left is currently demonstrating that it is not on our side and is failing to listen to us, engage with us or allow us any media space. So if the left don't listen, and we are not allowed to work with the right (even though that's ok for the likes of Julie Bindel), who are you suggesting women work with?

You said you were, "....struck by how much merch there is with her image on it....". Clearly implying that she is selling a plethora of items with her actual image on it. I've just scrolled down the "All Products" part of the store. There are 171 individual products for sale (not counting that some of the t-shirts etc may come in multiple colours that are not headlined). Of those 171 products, none has a picture of Posie Parker on it. 1 mug, 1 black T-shirt, 1 white T-shirt and 1 black hoodie (so 4 products) have an abstract image that looks like Marilyn Monroe's face. I am sure PP would be very flattered that someone looking at that in the street would think, "Oh look, there goes someone wearing a T shirt with an abstract Posie Parker on it." I rather think the average person on the street will not think they are looking at anything other than Marilyn Monroe. Posie's "image" can only be seen in the cartoon blonde with the umbrella, which is the shop logo and which is not printed on anything you
wear. It is printed on the cardboard backing to her pins, that you take off and pop in the recycling bin (or, in the minds of her deranged critics,
we put under our pillows and kiss at night). So, to your question, "....why try to pretend that KJK's merch doesn't have stylised images of her on it?", I don't need to pretend, because it doesn't and you are lying.

Hi All,

I was at Lesbian Strength and some who attended that then went to Brighton. General feelings are:

• No-one knows what the women said because JCJ (who is not, and never has been, an academic) and others broadcasted the presence of some irrelevant men to their thousands of followers thus giving them the very platform which they seek.

• Having put considerable effort into organising an event for women to speak, they now feel vilified by their own side for things beyond their control.

• My friends were abused by a TRA mob and yet the greater concern seems to be with a few men with objectionable views who turned up to a public event. Personally, I'd feel more at risk from a knife carrying TRA than some non-entities not bothering anyone.

Then we're expected to believe that it's merely a political disagreement. It's not. Just as TRAs cloak their misogyny in "inclusive" language, so women such as JCJ cloak their resentment and grievances in political disagreement. This has nothing to do with being, as some sneeringly say, a "Posie Stan" - many of us, engaged in off line actions, are tired of being belittled and made to feel "lesser than" (Karen Ingala Smith, who does crucial work, inexplicably said my friends were on "safari" doing "outreach" when they were leafletting) by women are no more qualified or better informed than the rest of us.

There's space for everyone.

💯

In the words of my lovely Scottish neighbour . The Left can 'Get Tae Fuck'.

Shift over on that boat I want a seat too.

Where are the lefty feminists talking at conference? hosting a stall?
Oh, that's right there isn't, because their own party won't allow them to.

They were relegated to fringe meetings and standing outside leafletting. And this is after at least 5+ years of trying to get the left to even listen to the debate.

They will only change their minds when they realise Joe public is no longing willing to take this shit and it might affect their votes. And Joe public doesn't read academic papers or articles. They read the Daily Mail, The Mirror the sun, and Express. etc. Until pressure is brought to bear by enough people, the Left has no reason to change.
The only way that can happen is to get the message out there, TO EVERYONE, not just the 'right sort' of people.
It's more important now than ever because it's looking like they might win the next GE and we have 2 years left to put pressure on them over self id and its ramifications. They need to hear from as many people as possible that that policy is unpopular.

Have any major U-Turns by governments occurred because someone wrote an article in Spiked? can't remember a single one. But enough people getting pissed off about something so that MSM start doing articles on it and making a big deal of it has led to flip flops by political parties in the past. because ultimately they're in it to keep power.

If anyone thinks politicians are in this for altruistic reasons anymore and not just self-serving then I have a bridge I,d like to sell you.

@DrLouiseJMoody 💐I'm very grateful for women like you who put yourself on the front line. I'm so sorry your brave actions are being shat on from all sides. I hope you take strength from the women who do support and appreciate you and your sisters in arms.

Do you think the police shouldn't have been protecting the 'fascists' then?
Given that the TRAs viewed babies as facists?

Or not even protect the 'facist' groups you dislike?who were not threatening anyone or being aggressive?

Chanting the police protect facists while being aggressive, while 'the facists' are calm and filming or talking or watching with their baby seems to question the whole silly notion of who were 'the facists'.

The earnest handwringing and oh won’t you think of the optics…

No.

TRAs don’t give a fuck about optics and look where they are, sitting at the big table making policy and laws and taking our words.

I am not right, or left, or any other label because I barely understand what the labels mean anymore except that it seems to be someone else's privilege to label me as problematic.

I read SFW as
Standing for Women (of all colours, creeds, shapes and ages)
Shouting for Women (cos not every woman has a voice)
Stan for Women (because we are amazing and there’d be nothing without us)
Sitting for Women (cos we just wanna have a beer or a pizza without being arrested or banned)
Support for Women (because who else will)

You get the idea. I just don’t get the drama.

reesewithoutaspoon, I agree with everything you wrote except this bit:

If anyone thinks politicians are in this for altruistic reasons anymore and not just self-serving then I have a bridge I,d like to sell you.

My current, first-class, hard-working, superhumanly energetic, clever, efficient and wise MP stood for this constituency back in 2017 when no one else seemed to want to take the job on. They gave up a secure career to do it. They won somewhat unexpectedly and have since then turned out to be the best MP you could hope for. Busy on the ground in the constituency, asking important questions in the HoC — and they are GC and have to battle the woke bros in the CLP as well as in the house. How they do it I don't know. They are so admired in the community that when I canvass for them I have people say 'I wouldn't normally vote Labour, but XXX is so brilliant I'm going to forget the party politics and vote for them.'

There will be others doing a similar, sterling job and these kind of blanket condemnations of their motives depress me.

Fair point. Came from a place of frustration with career politicians in westminister. Can we have your MP too. Ours is fucking useless

I second this - women are doing what they can, there space for everyone!

I don't think WPUK have ever hired Millwall Football Club - pretty sure that that was one of Venice Allen and possibly Julia Long's events quite a few years ago.

In 2018. It was Venice and Sheila Jeffreys was the main speaker. It ended up being in a room at the House of Commons. I went.

She talks about it, and TRAs targeting both Milwall and HoC here:

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/09/24/interview-irrepressible-venice-allan-fight-changes-uk-gender-recognition-act/

Apart from that one thing it's a great post, @BitossiBlues

Thank you @Ereshkigalangcleg and @christinarossetti39 for setting me straight on the Milwall FC thing. I can't believe it was only 4 years ago. It feels like a fucking eternity since that happened.

Is there a connection between the catastrophic drop in support for changing sex on birth certificates British Attitudes Survey and then the shit show of infighting over Brighton? It seems to me as we make progress... someone wants to fuck it up.

Yeah the feminists want to fuck it up because it's become their gravy train and their little hobby horse.

Although Bindel I dunno. She has done some good work about prostitution and trafficking. I just think she's not a clear thinker or a very nice person. I remember watching her in a debate on free speech and her argument was basically that she should have free speech and it was disgusting that TRAs tried to shut her down. But when people say bad things (according to her metric of good/bad) they should not be given a platform. So... maybe not as cynical as some of the others but also not so smart?

It's really interesting to me to see how far removed from reality some people have become, with regard to controlling who comes to open meetings.

I go to church pretty regularly, in a big city parish. It's very specifically, like most churches, open to anyone to come. They don't have to be of any particular religious belief, or any. They can be of any background. People who are religious and members can also be of any background. It's very specifically something with no qualifications. They don't have to be nice, respectable, or anything else.

I know we have regular members with all kinds of dodgy pasts and occasional visitors who are from very dark places.

That's in some ways a most extreme example. But there are many many civil organizations that similarly have no political or social requirements for attendance and participation.

That's actually the norm.

This idea that people at a meeting need to be screened is not normal and maybe those who think it is need to reconsider why their organizations have got into trouble.

I think that's exactly what it is. Her viewpoints in general aren't terribly coherent. None of us are totally coherent of course, but she's all over the place.