Men in women's changing rooms

[Moggyd]

Just been into Marks and Spencer's changing rooms and there was a man sat outside the cubicle waiting for his partner. Right next to the big mirror where you come out and look. I didn't feel comfortable at all and wouldn't come out of the cubicle to show my friend the dress. I spoke to the member of staff and she said it was a recent change and men can go into the what was ladies changing rooms now because a few men have kicked off recently when refused entry. I feel pretty angry about this. Interestingly there was a sticker inside my friend's changing room as attached. Not put there by Marks. What do others think?

I think Marks are making it clear they hold women in contempt.

Absolutely. I think it's horrendous and the changing rooms are now not safe.

I spoke to the member of staff and she said it was a recent change and men can go into the what was ladies changing rooms now because a few men have kicked off recently when refused entry.

So instead of calling security, they let them in. Sounds like an odd way to behave when someone kicks off because they don't want to abide by the rules.

So if a shoplifter 'kicks off' when they are challenged, do they just say 'that's ok, help yourself to what you want'?

Seems to be increasingly how things work, OldCrone. Acquiescing to threats and terrorism, really.

The inclusivity word was used ... This has actually upset me more than it probably should. Possibly to do with my past. I will be taking it further.

They aren’t the only one. I was in New Look some time ago and a man was sat on a couch in the middle of the changing room. Women and girls were getting changed behind curtains around him. He was also messing on his phone, so could have been taking photos if he wanted.
I was going to ask a member of staff about it, but to be fair, I can’t see a female member of staff approaching a man and asking him to leave. The man may get aggressive, so why should they.

@KangarooKenny that's exactly what it was like.

M & S is all about faux inclusivity and care little about the safety or right to privacy of women and girls. Quite an astonishing position for a retailer of women's clothes and lingerie to take - but that's where we are today. 🙄

I was going to ask a member of staff about it, but to be fair, I can’t see a female member of staff approaching a man and asking him to leave. The man may get aggressive, so why should they.

Surely most larger stores would have security staff or male assistants who could deal with this.

Marks have been very clear for several years now that they wholly support male people doing whatever they want, including using women and their spaces in openly inappropriate ways. Look up the threads with the evidence about the tweets and comments online by males who like to wank on the clothes and put them back on the rail, or wank on the floor of the changing room and share their excitement that some female will walk on their sperm or put on clothes so it touches them. And the ones who are very excited by walking in on women in cubicles when exposed, in the hope of the woman scolding them.

I mean just stamp 'sex toy for male use only' on our bloody foreheads why don't you? I wouldn't go in that place now without a bloody hazmat suit. Shudder.

Depends if the shoplifter in question is a man I suppose.

Women need to kick off then if this is the only way we can get things done for us. Keep complaining.

This makes me so angry! Women's rights are being stolen from us. I don't know what we can do about this as it's so insidious.

It's been like this for years with M&S - i stopped shopping there years ago because they clearly hate women.

Just messaged M&S through Facebook. This is their response:

Hi real first name removed, in all of our stores, we have fitting rooms located within our womenswear and menswear departments and each is made up of individual lockable cubicles to ensure every customer feels comfortable and has the privacy they need. While they are mainly used by customers of that gender, as an inclusive retailer and in line with most other retailers, we allow customers the choice of fitting room - Thanks.

Appalling.

I was in a Mint Velvet store recently. It sells only women's clothes. The changing room was a row of 4 cubicles with curtains opening out onto a narrow corridor. I went into the second cubicle about the same time as another woman who went into the end one. A minute or two later while I'm standing in my bra and pants a huge bloke thunders past with an armful of clothes booming loudly to his wife about what he's got for her. He does this twice ie he's up and down the corridor brushing past my curtains 4 times. The curtains were very 'naice' ones but so heavy and hung so high up on rings they wouldn't close all the way to the wall. I became acutely aware of the gap and the fact that I was fully lit in this enclosed mirrored space while this loud man is barging up and down the dimly lit corridor.
I complained to the manager afterwards and asked if they always allowed men in the changing rooms. She looked very uncomfortable and murmured something about generally not letting them in when there were other women in the changing room. I pointed out that they didn't seem to be enforcing this policy. I said I was the paying customer in a women's clothes shop and I felt very uncomfortable about trying on clothes where men could see me in my underwear.

Since the rise of mixed changing rooms and TWAW policies I think there is an increasing sense of entitlement on the part of some men to barge into very obviously female spaces they would not have dared enter before.

New look don’t where I live

@ZeldaFighter thanks for doing that. Typical response from them. The party line that's totally shit and favouring men so they don't get their feelings hurt. I'm livid about it. Ok then, I will of course contact Marks but what else can I do about getting this out there?

@PaperTrails that sounds awful. It's just not acceptable that you should feel uncomfortable in the cubicle like that. I don't give a damn if the cubicle is lockable. The feelings of vulnerability that women have in that situation is the same whether the door is locked or not. Also, why can't we just let it be the way it has been? It's just not necessary is it.

The unspoken elephant in the room is that a large scary male kicking off is going to get what he wants in the desperate hope he doesn't thump anyone.

A female kicking off is going to get removed by security because no one's afraid of her.

This is what this is at bottom: males regardless of chosen identity have been encouraged and enabled to believe that they can just do whatever they want and no one will stop them. And they're right. Some have just got more enabling than others.

The only option is that females just quit using those spaces, as we've said from the start. We'll lose access to public life and just wait for the first rape/assault trial in which the defense bellows at some female that she knew it was a mixed sex space and she chose to go in there and get her kit off so she was asking for it. Just wait for it, it will come.

However the question arises, who is raising these males to have these horrible beliefs and attitudes and behaviours?

Because it won't primarily be male parents.

Interestingly, I just used the web chat feature on their website & was assured that if female customers requested no male-bodied people in the fitting rooms while they were in there, this would be accommodated
Not quite sure how the female assistants would enforce this….
Looks like M&S have had a policy change - or (more likely?) they’re happy to fob me off online!

"I spoke to the member of staff and she said it was a recent change and men can go into the what was ladies changing rooms now because a few men have kicked off recently when refused entry."

The frightening reality is that the type of man who would kick off and demand access to female sex spaces is exactly the type of man for which the single sex provisions and legislations were brought in to protect against.

The regressive steps men have forced society to accept in examples like this over recent years, demanding and bullying government and organisations to prioritise male feelings and wishes over the privacy and safety of women and girls is an outrageous scandal.

Marks and Spencer, and every other organisation that has thrown women under the bus like this should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

Please note that m and s used the word gender in their reply. Its sex, not gender, that is one of the protected characteristics in the equality act. Dont let them confuse you. Gender is actually meaningless as most people can't define it (its fluid with no physical characteristics), unlike sex (which is binary and physical).