Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chameber) Thread 2

[nauticant]

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (?? September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (?? September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - Not yet available
Dr Belinda Bell: Not yet available
Beverley Jackson: Not yet available
Kate Harris: Not yet available
Eileen Gallagher: Not yet available

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

Lesbian gay and bisexual people should not support lesbians, this should be medically qualified people only as they are too specialised and complicated.

This.

Bloody hell. Is she actually saying there is an agenda to pathologise homosexuality?

Jeez.

Thanks for the new thread and brilliant commentary.

Re Scandinavia

Some women aren't bothered by being naked in a space with men. Like in some Scandinavian countries

I spent a happy holiday in Gothenburg quite few years ago with a friend who lived there. We caught a tram to a place by the sea where there were separate female and male bathing areas (with high fencing all around for privacy). It was lovely. Mostly naked women, not all, elderly ladies with their hair in curlers, mahogany tan, mopping up some sort of evil alcohol and pickled herring rolls.

In recent years I have read reports of these places going the same way as the Ladies Pond at Hampstead Heath. Such a shame. And definitely not welcomed.

As regards private saunas I once worked with someone who recounted how, when she was a teenager, her family moved to Sweden for her father's job. He blagged an invitation for her to go to a party with his work colleagues' teenagers. At some point they gravitated to the sauna, mixed and naked. Being shy she wasn't sure what to do so say there sweating wearing her thick Norwegian hand knitted sweater!

All this “I’m not an expert”, “It’s very complicated” and “I’m not a medical doctor” reminds me of Father Jack Hackett being coached to only answer “Yes” or “That would be an ecumenical matter” to the bishops.

Video clip while we wait for proceedings to resume.

I'm sure it's not lost on the judge that mens reaction to mixed saunas is going to be vastly different to that of women. Gay or straight.

Quick thank you to everyone keeping us updated - riveting!

Yes, thank you from me as well. Can't log in as not in the UK. Would love to be viewing in real time, but the commentary here and the tweets from tribunaltweets on Twitter are really giving a flavour of the proceedings.

Thank you all, I'm following with interest (and incredulity!).

Another one here unable to watch live and very grateful to everyone here for the commentary (and humour!).

Oh thank you everyone for updating the thread! Me right now 👇🏻

Oh shame gifs don't play properly- it was this one!

KM now asking what BB thinks of the "born in the wrong body" narrative.

I still can't join the live court proceedings!! Anyone else having problems?

Oh, I see, it was an analogy, it wasn't actually meant. Oh, that's clear now.

BB is gabbling a bit.

I can't find the 'born without sex' bit on threadreader. Can anyone help?

She's such a gabbler!

So - what was it an analogy of?

Astonishingly DameMaud I think tribunaltweets missed that cracker of a comment.

BB claiming that Mermaids dropped the "wrong body" narrative completely independently of the relevant guidance issued by the government. (Mermaids dropped the phrase one day after the guidance was published.)

Gosh, Co In Ci Dence.

But she can't recall it being the nudge to do so.

Chinny reckon

Thank you for this thread and the tweets. Following with fascination and with my jaw on the floor.

chef's kiss

👌

BB: This case is not being funded by Mermaids' charitable resources. It's coming from a crowdfunder.

It probably will. But point me to the bit that's inaccurate.

It becomes ever more difficult to do. And that is the point.

The 'unsayable' becomes more sayable as evidence builds and behaviour displayed is consistent with the point.

Thanks to those who pointed out my lack of reading comprehension earlier. I am now awaiting the link.

Over on twitter, it seems "the legal system" can be added to the list of transphobic things:

https://twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1569627720677560322