Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chameber) Thread 2

[nauticant]

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (?? September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (?? September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - Not yet available
Dr Belinda Bell: Not yet available
Beverley Jackson: Not yet available
Kate Harris: Not yet available
Eileen Gallagher: Not yet available

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

She did, Datun.

NICE certainly couldn’t find it!

here’s their review, prepared for Cass:

cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/20220726_Evidence-review_GnRH-analogues_For-upload_Final.pdf

Extract:

So they refer to doctors who they have no interest in and no interest in follow up as that's not their area of expertise...however Cass has closed GIDS to stop Mermaids from influence in the same doctors they have no interest in and no interest in follow up?

If I were Dr Bell I'd be pissed of that I'm the one doing this rather than Susie green

Although as chair of the board she should understand her responsibilities to fully understand what the charity is doing

It might not be exactly verbatim Datun but it was very close to this:

BB: "I'm not sure that children come out of the womb with a sex"

GIDS who they meet with once a year too...

But they don't talk about anything cos that might inadvertently mean MM might learn something about the GIDS service that's just been shut down.

Mermaids not qualified to give medical advice.

Plenty of charities are not medically qualified but need to keep abreast of what doctors are saying in order to help those they do support. LGBA and their dissemination of info regarding Monkeypox is a recent example. Age UK have a whole section of their website dedicated to health and wellbeing. I'm sure there are loads more examples. "We aren't doctors to don't bother to find out info relevant to the people we purport to help" is a pathetic attempt at an excuse.

Exactly how do Mermaids support children, other than reinforcing stereotypes then? What does their charity do. No research, no knowledge of up to date medical interventions. What do they actually do with all that money?

KM - the fact that a child goes on to x-sex hormones is not that they were properly diagnosed and making progress but that they were improperly diagnosed and locked into a treatment pathway.

BB - I don't think that a reasonable or only interpretation of what Dr Cass is saying.

But didn't she just say she doesn't know why children transition?

how can she know? She doesn't know why children transition. She has no clue why they end up being medicated, or having surgery and becoming a lifelong medical patient.

At least someone at Stonewall had enough brain cells to predict this line of questioning and withdrew their involvement from the case.

I know I've said that 1000 times, but I honestly thought I was beyond being shocked with this shit. But I'm not.

They are actually telling the world they don't think that children have a sex, but of course, they're no expert...

Break, back at 14.05.

KM: Suggest an organisation seeking to protect and promote lgb children should have an interest in how lesbian girls presenting.
BB: Only to be done by a specialist organisation that knows about medical things.

She actually said, "knows about medical things"

If they don't come out of the womb with a sex, what are they transitioning from or two and why do Mermaids need to exist if the kids' gender indentity is not the same as their sex which apparently doesn't exist?

If I was the Charity Commisison I'd be looking at all LGBT charities and their activities after this.

I need to go and scream into a pillow during the break.

I feel the same 🤯

They are the marketing arm for the sex change pharmaceutical industry.

I do a rant, it helps.

Wondering why lesbians are showing up at GIDS is too specialised for the LGBA to be concerned about? But it's not too fucking specialised for mermaids to send them there. Despite them cheerfully admitting that they're no expert?

This is the same behaviour displayed by Gender Gp. 'We've created a situation where they need to have certain medication, and we give it to them.' The end.

Some of these people are so very annoying. I can't work out how they all get along together. Don't they annoy each other? Just imagine working with this woman all day every day.

I think we all do.

Actually, forget the pillow.

YY.

The same as non-binary people require everyone else to adhere to a 'binary' in order that they can absent themselves of it.

I don't think it's for this woman to dictate what the remit of LGBA is allowed to be.

KM - I will ask again, do you disagree that it is unreasonable for an LGBA charity to worry about what is happening to lesbian girls?
BB - it is too specialised and technical for them.

I just don't know where to start with this testimony. I wonder how familiar the judge is with this whole area, I can imagine her or him sitting with a look of utter bewilderment at the witnesses so far.