Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chameber) Thread 2

[nauticant]

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (?? September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (?? September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - Not yet available
Dr Belinda Bell: Not yet available
Beverley Jackson: Not yet available
Kate Harris: Not yet available
Eileen Gallagher: Not yet available

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

Astonishing. Of all the witnesses Mermaids could have chosen, they chose these three. I wonder why they didn't put Susie Green forward? Did they imagine that she'd make an even bigger fool of herself than Bell has done?

KM - are you not concerned that particular cohorts of children are presenting to GIDS? As the chair of MM are you not concerned or interested in this?

Because if not, we know a charity who is!!

Honestly, they're so one-eyed , they don't realise they're actually arguing for the existence of the LGBA

BELL: I'm no expert in this field

The trans community seems to be being run by people who are not experts

BB is suggesting Cass is wrong on puberty blockers saying there's research on them having been used for many years.

Where is all this hidden medical evidence that only Europe are privy to?

Why is she laughing about these serious concerns?

I think it is a tension inherent in the ideology that meanings (of words, in terms of how behaviours are understood...) have to be held in place just enough by everyone else so that the special people can demonstrate their specialness by subverting them. If you take them at their word and agree with their empty statements the whole thing crumbles.

KM: there is evidential reason for someone to be concerned about puberty blockers on a child.
BB: anyone could have concerns, need to balance them
KM: LGBA would have evidential basis for expressing concern with puberty blockers and x sex hormones
BB: Mermaids not qualified to give medical advice. Any charity should be careful for that to be their focus.

That evidence, you wouldn't know that evidence @ickky , it goes to a different school

I am finding her random laugh really annoying - I know it's probably nerves but this is childrens lives and not something to laugh about

Yes. I would like them to be asked exactly what is their area of expertise in that case.

Let's have it. Let's have exactly what they think being trans is, why it needs support, and what would be the outcome of that support.

She thinks it's laughable that gay youth, subject to homophobia are seeking transition?

Totes hilar, isn't it?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-feels-like-conversion-therapy-for-gay-children-say-clinicians-pvsckdvq2

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tavistock-gender-clinic-converting-gay-children-tz8cs77p3

(Articles can be read by copying and pasting the link in the archive dot ph )

It’s true that under Blanchard’s (now outdated but still somewhat relevant) typography HSTS (‘homosexual transsexuals’ aka feminine males who transition young and exclusively seek relationships with masculine males) ARE the minority.

These are the little Mermaids boys (like Susie Green’s child) who grow up to be ‘straight women’ in modern trans ideology’s parlance.

of course, if that’s who Dr B Bell is referring to it means she’s admitting the majority of transwomen are the three letter acronym that our external moderators find offensive.

Bit of a self own, seeing as a) ‘transbians’ are largely why LGBA have become necessary and b) Most male transitioners who identify as ‘lesbians’ aren’t part of Mermaids remit, due to ‘coming out’ as (largely middle aged) adults.

(up until very recently almost all transmen were attracted to women, so also ‘straight’ in gendertalk. It’s the ROGD generation who call themselves ‘gay transguys’)

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard's_transsexualism_typology

Exactly. They are trying to gain rights aided by a concept that they are simultaneously trying to obliterate.

Have been lurking on these threads as I can’t watch the tribunal (can’t use my own name). Delurking in sheer open-jawed shock at 'I'm not sure that children come out of the womb with a sex'.

And I thought the previous 2 witnesses were bad….but this is the chair of the trustees? She has a doctorate and other degrees? She functions in the world?

Riiiiight.

KM is setting a trap here asking BB if Mermaids effectively have any interest at all in problems that might be associated with puberty blockers.

BB rather rattled.

Given all the stuff that Mermaids says they don't actually do, I reckon some of the people who have donated money would be justified in asking for their money back

From Tribunal Tweets

BB - we don't give health care advice, and I would expect that given the difficulty in this area, any charity would be very careful in focusing on this area and would need deep specialism.

But Mermaids don't need to be experts?

Wrong puberty??

Is that why they referred children to 2 doctors, one of whom has been struck off, and the other suspended?

BB - Puberty will just resume if the kid stops taking them.

Jesus wept. 😡

She doesn't have a clue what she's talking about.

No evidence that puberty blockers are reversible according to NHS?

I missed the start of this cross examination. Is Dr Bell a medical doctor?

I can't see, from tribunal tweets, where she said the children are not born with a sex? Did she actually say that??

I'm going to assume that what she means when she says she's not an expert 😁