Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chameber) Thread 2

[nauticant]

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (?? September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (?? September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - Not yet available
Dr Belinda Bell: Not yet available
Beverley Jackson: Not yet available
Kate Harris: Not yet available
Eileen Gallagher: Not yet available

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

KM: Next tweets where you say accuse MM of promoting GRS, lobbies for lowering of age for PBs - do you advocate for that?
BB: it can seem surprising for 10/11 yo but that's when its needed, before puberty. Im not a clinician , wouldn't say we lobby hard for it

Yes 2falls, this it totally contradictory and to reduce the side effects to just some headaches is un-fucking-believable. Wasn't there evidence that Mermaids were coaching children and their parents in what to say when they got a GIDs appointment?

A reminder of this monstrosity....

www.genderbread.org/resource/genderbread-person-v4-0-poster

I'm still trying to process 90% of the clientele being (again in old money and actual terminology) heterosexual.

Are they seriously saying as one of the lead advisory services for parents and kids, they are unaware of the side effects and problems that have occurred with PBs and that they have been found NOT wholly reversible?

HOW have they managed to stay ignorant of this?!

My head hurts, it really does. Up is down, and down is up. Real time Alice and Through the Looking Glass shite.

Thanks to everyone who is posting.

I don’t understand MG’s line of questioning here.

Blinding response there from Jackson about how one can see gender identity in action, ie same gender attraction, as homophobic.

HOW have they managed to stay ignorant of this?!

They are not ignorant of it, they know full well the bottom line is they don't care it's the ideological goal being reached that matters not the sacrificial lambs on the way to achieving it.

I think he is trying to he BJ to say the unsayable. Even though we all know that it is homophobic.

I lost who said this, but I’ve been giggling about it. I’m not a lesbian, but I feel the same.

“It's complicated. (I'm not an expert.) I'm also a lesbian, so should be approached only with qualified medical professionals and possibly a security cordon.”

Me either.

Although it's establishing the hostility towards a belief that sex is a fixed, unchanging fact and people are entitled to hold to this regardless of how another would prefer them to change their view to match that of a gender identity. (Leaving aside that this is in fact reality and not a belief system.)

I like BJ it feels like an adult has entered the room!

Thank you. I've never heard of genderbread before and yes, it would seem it is full on 🤪 and rather unpleasantly designed to appeal to young children.

😂

So far MG is struggling because when BJ is asked to explain the origins of her views and their action in the real world, she's responding based on material reality rather than "anything can be anything".

Wow BJ seems composed and clear while the MM counsel is coming across as bumbling and unprepared or am I just bias?

Wow BJ seems composed and clear while the MM counsel is coming across as bumbling and unprepared or am I just bias?

How can he prepare? There is no reasonable line of questioning afaict

I'm intrigued as to how MG is going to make any of the mermaid position seem reasonable

It’s clear that BJ understands why she believes what she does

in the same way as it was clear that Paul Roberts had absolutely no idea at all why he believes much of what he does

MG trying to suggest that using the term "male bodied" rather than "trans" is transphobic.

This is about LGBA "avoiding the word trans".

How can he prepare? There is no reasonable line of questioning afaict

I suppose his line of questioning is to question reality in order to show MM as correct in their claim against LGBA?

Just caught up. Many thanks for all the commentary which is hilarious if it wasn’t so serious for those of us who are female lesbian feminist or gay. If I were the judge I would recommend that the charity commissioners take a serious look at the two LGBTI organisations represented up to now and add SW for good measure.

I like the fact that BJ is taking her time and thinking. He's trying to get her to say something he can pounce on as transphobic and she's basing everything in material reality. Although he keeps saying he may come back to that, as if there's another material reality that Bev's forgotten about that will undermine her material reality.

Thanks @nauticant alas neither of those work - Google suggests it should be pre-filled but it isn’t. Am trying to join by phone but that’s not working either. Maybe tomorrow

This is about LGBA "avoiding the word trans"

don’t talk about trans

don’t not talk about trans

BJ: we're just a small volunteer group. We don't have that much power.

We have to use terms like male-bodied persons because confusion has arisen. Might
prefer to say men.