Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chameber) Thread 2

[nauticant]

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (?? September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (?? September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - Not yet available
Dr Belinda Bell: Not yet available
Beverley Jackson: Not yet available
Kate Harris: Not yet available
Eileen Gallagher: Not yet available

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

The Judge still hasn't seen the Genderbread Person poster.

With any luck we'll see the look on her face when she first reads it.

So as many as 91% of trans people are identifying as gay because they’ve insisted on redefining gay as homogenderist?

because that’s really not the ‘LGB Alliance aren’t needed’ argument Dr BBell thinks it is.

Earlier on BB confirmed that she had not updated her statement which was made in January. I wondered why she would not do this, given that a lot has happened, particularly the Bailey case and the Cass review which has seen the closing of GIDS. Not making any assumptions, it just seems lazy and/or negligent.

Let the sunlight stream in.
I’m no expert but I could have given a heads up it would all be about the money.

Ah! Thanks Chilling!

And agreed. Lazy/incurious
all round it seems

Do Tribunal Tweets know that there have been no more tweets on their thread for the last hour? Is there a problem?

There have been. I think the thread broke at one point though. If you go to their page you can pick up the thread again.

This — this is really important. If it's true that 91% of trans people identify as gay (even though the relationships they seek as trans-gay people are actually what most people would understand as straight relationships) then that is something, surely, that the LGBA can quite rightly be concerned about. That would seem to me to be an own-goal.

Behind the curve I know but:

KM: Next tweets where you say accuse MM of promoting GRS, lobbies for lowering of age for PBs - do you advocate for that?
BB: it can seem surprising for 10/11 yo but that's when its needed, before puberty. Im not a clinician , wouldn't say we lobby hard for it

I thought they weren't medical.

This testimony is so contradictory. Do you think she has secretly switched sides and she is trying to destroy mermaids.

Then the point about the money.

One of my favourite Posie P quotes on this topic is (paraphrasing) ‘I don’t know about you [her YouTube audience] but when my son turned 16 I bought him a Playstation.’

There have been. I think the thread broke at one point though. If you go to their page you can pick up the thread again.

That's why I view them as "show all tweets from":

twitter.com/search?q=(from%3Atribunaltweets)&src=typed_query&f=live

Also, if you scroll up this means that new tweets auto-refresh to the top.

Anyone who is watching online (I’ve finally had the link through), what do you put in “conference alias or URI”? I’ve tried the case ref and pasted the link but neither work.

thanks!

I'm not sure SlipperyLizard but I'd try either the number in the middle of the weblink in the email sent by the tribunal or the conference ID number provided for those dialling in by telephone.

So as many as 91% of trans people are identifying as gay because they’ve insisted on redefining gay as homogenderist

I suspect she actually meant "queer" rather than gay.

It's now witness Beverley Jackson for LGBA.

It's complicated. (I'm not an expert.) I'm also a lesbian, so should be approached only with qualified medical professionals and possibly a security cordon.

I wonder if your medical needs could qualify for a prescription for ? Boudica?

I suspect she actually meant "queer" rather than gay.

I think it was more "only 9% are straight".

I'm loving the court clerk taking her own sweet time to look at the mic. 😄

If 9% of the T kids at Mermaids are straight - doesn't this actually mean that those 9% would in old money have termed themselves homosexual?

Thanks, have done so.

C'mon, Mr Gibbon - 'I'm sorry, Ms Jackson' was right there!

Beverley Jackson has a rather regal sounding voice. Best put her in the upper chamber.

Are you for real

I would like to see some clarity from BB on this. The first witness was very vague about homosexuality and heterosexuality and tried claiming it was all very complicated, definitions were not easy, there were no hard and fast categories etc. But ultimately he argued that the definition of homosexuality as same-sex attracted was wrong, and that homosexuality should be defined as same-gender attracted. So what does this 9% claim mean? Presumably it means that a female -to-male transgender person who is attracted to women is, in Mermaids' view, straight. Whereas everyone else would regard that person as lesbian. If that is what BB means, then she has completely undermined her own argument.