Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chameber) Thread 2

[nauticant]

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (?? September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (?? September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (?? September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - Not yet available
Dr Belinda Bell: Not yet available
Beverley Jackson: Not yet available
Kate Harris: Not yet available
Eileen Gallagher: Not yet available

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

Posting for the winning message

And to pass around as you fancy

I’m settling in for a coherent argument, might need the deck chairs and blankets for that wait tho.

Wims 🥂

I’m settling in for a coherent argument

Good luck to you.

BB: "A child being told or taught that there might be something wrong about their body just seems unlikely to me."

Just catching up again! Pretty much scrolled down through JN's wall of words without meaning.. onto BB now.

At least she has outright stated
"KM - so sex and gender are different
BB - yes. Gender is somewhat culturally and socially constructed."

So the polar opposite of what Stonewall and others have said, that sex and gender are the same.

lilymaynard.com/born-in-the-wrong-body-thats-not-what-we-meant/

1% used to be the quoted number. Now Mermaids accept it's 2.5% so it's going up.

'Detransitioners may exist' 😲

OK, I'll bite, BB saying that there was an article in Pediatrics in August that tells us there's no problem about high rates of detransition. Which was it?

BB says she doesn't come across many detransitioners. There'll be a reason for that.

BB I'm not coming across many detransitioners.

Yeah no shit, has she seen what happens to them when they desist.

A child being told or taught that there might be something wrong about their body just seems unlikely to me.

wtf?! If there is nothing wrong with the child's body then why the fuck have you been advocating for puberty blockers, you absolute muppet?!

Seems nobody told John Nicolson that BITWB was no longer part of the catechism - but then again he isn't an expert I guess.

@ImNotAnExpert Thanks for the link regarding Denmark in the previous thread.

Is there much pushback on this from Danish women given the naked sauna culture?

I wonder how welcome detransitioners are at Mermaids.

Most vulnerable! Bingo

I know. What world does BB live in? Will KM start quoting back Mermaids' old statements about being born in the wrong body?

KM - are these girls going through transition to avoid homophobia or societal pressure?
BB - that idea is absolutely laughable that someone would go through transition to avoid that.

Mermaids are saying that detrans people who have said they went through transition to avoid homophobia or societal pressure are LAUGHABLE?!?! Laughable???

No wonder they never hear this when they expressly say they LAUGH at the idea.

I assume the August article which means all is well is this one:

publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/2/e2021056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition?autologincheck=redirected?nfToken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

BB I'm not coming across many detransitioners.

And I bet Catholic priests don't come across many ex-Catholics. That's the way with religion - once you're out you don't tend to seek the company or guidance of those who tried to keep you in.

'We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once.'

That's totally cool, then. If only 7% of children who've had irreversible surgery/treatment go on to change their mind. Ya win some ya lose some, eh?

In other news, the Taliban confirm they've not met many apostates lately.

(But absolutely no to a charity separate from us, meeting the needs and helping the voices of that 7.5 %. Because Reasons.)

https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/do-you-still-use-the-phrase-born-in-the-wrong-body/

Of course, the phrase is one we’ve used ourselves in the past and, at the time, it seemed helpful. Back then, the idea that anyone – let alone a young person – could be transgender or gender-diverse was a new concept for many of those we spoke to. That collective lack of experience meant transgender people and support organisations had to find some way of explaining what being trans meant.

A child being told or taught that there might be something wrong about their body just seems unlikely to me

'There's nothing wrong with your body but also take these drugs to stop it developing properly because it will make the irreversible surgery that you'll go on to have when you're a bit older (because your body obviously isn't right), easier'.

Is that about the long and short of it?

Keep in mind what KM is doing here, she's hammering home the point that effectively all of BB's criticism of LGBA is that it holds views she disagrees with, and in many cases, LGBA has justifications for the views it holds, even though BB would disagree.

KM: Moving on, other reasons for your appeal: 'gay teens aren't sick' is not problematic is it?
BB: it is, I dont want gay teens or trans teens written on side of a bus in London