Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine

1000 replies

Bosky · 13/09/2022 06:04

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit grower statement

A statement from the owner reads in part:

Downtime Update as of August 26th, 2022

"What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [REDACTED] can [REDACTED] little boys and girls into [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which allows criticism of their [REDACTED], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead."

I would link to the statement on the Internet Archive aka "Wayback Machine" but it has made all pages archived from the relevant site unsearchable (or deleted?).

Mumsnet does not permit links to the site Archive Today so that is out too.

1st Thread Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 16/09/2022 14:23

Correct me if I'm wrong

you’re wrong

tell me…is it all criminal activity you are ok with or just some, are you ok with shoplifters for example

TheClogLady · 16/09/2022 14:33

KF are not the police, and their accusations are not credible.

it’s up to the police to decide which accusations are credible, Marge, not you.

Were KF wrong to document Christine Chandler’s questionable behaviour?

www.insider.com/chris-chan-saga-timeline-incest-charges-arrest-2021-8?

Not under US Law, they weren’t.

Perhaps some people would prefer a world where elderly women with dementia are sexually abused without the wider world noticing, but I wouldn’t.

MargaritaPie · 16/09/2022 14:41

"it’s up to the police to decide which accusations are credible, Marge, not you."

As an example The internet wayback machine removed all KF archives. Then a thread appeared on KF with the title "the-wayback-machine-is-run-by-tranny-pedophiles".

I don't believe this is credible, KF are just stamping their feet when things don't go their way and call everyone they dislike a "pedo".

Asides from the organised attacks on LGBT people resulting in suicides, libel could be potential crimes here committed by KF users.

TheClogLady · 16/09/2022 14:48

I don’t think you should be using T word on here Marge (unless it’s a direct quote from a transgender person using it to self describe).

I would recommend self-reporting your post.

MN doesn’t do freespeech the way the farms does (which includes tasteless jokes and defanging slur words by applying them randomly to everyone).

That’s the difference between UK and US law, of course.

AlisonDonut · 16/09/2022 14:51

MargaritaPie · 16/09/2022 14:16

On KF just being trans or a parent of a transperson or any org who does something KF don't like automatically makes them a "pedo" or "groomer" according to KF.

KF are not the police, and their accusations are not credible.

No, grooming makes them a groomer.

You are the one that is giving people carte blanche allowances to groom if they say they are 'trans'.

If they aren't grooming then there is nothing to see. That's how KF works.

nauticant · 16/09/2022 14:58

MargaritaPie appears to be saying that none of the behaviours archived on KF were things to be concerned about. Now either MP is going to fall back into a claim of ignorance of the content of the site in terms of archived behaviours or they are aware of that content and consider that it needs to be turned a blind eye to because the only target of one's disgust should be KF as a monolithic entity.

Again, I'm reminded by parallels with the Rotherham scandal.

MargaritaPie · 16/09/2022 14:58

"I don’t think you should be using T word on here Marge (unless it’s a direct quote from a transgender person using it to self describe)"

I was quoting a thread title on KF.

I notice KF also use the word "tr**n" a lot. Is this a new derogatory term or something?

"No, grooming makes them a groomer."

If KF users really do have evidence of sexual crimes why aren't they sending their evidence to the police? Where is their evidence that the people who run the Wayback machine are "pedos" as they are now claiming? Have they made a police report with this evidence?

Bosky · 16/09/2022 15:02

MargaritaPie · 16/09/2022 13:02

"The criminals are removing the Captcha guards
The criminals are removing the DDOS guards"

"Criminals" aren't "removing" anything.

People are concerned regarding the vile content on KF, the frequent false accusations of paedophilia/grooming on there against transpeople and their parents/supporters, and the attacks organised on there against transpeople. Reports are made to services providing hosting/captcha/DDoS guards etc and these services are making the decision to suspend services to KF based on their own investigations.

A vile comment was made on KF along the lines of "we should go with an African host because they hate trannies as much as we do and they won't suspend us" along with violent comments of what would happen to LGBT people in Africa.

"They seek to destroy a website that has catalogued evidence of their disturbing behavior and activities"

The only "evidence of disturbing behaviour" I have seen on KF was the content they post themselves.

"The criminals are removing the Captcha guards
The criminals are removing the DDOS guards"

"Criminals" aren't "removing" anything.

Your reporting on KF is very selective.

Did you miss the posts evidencing direct links between the current champion of internet censorship and a serial doxer, swatter and instigator of multiple vexatious law suits who has been trying to persuade someone, anyone, to piggyback off his black-hat hacking expertise to take down KF for at least two years?

The evidence of that gentleman's collaboration with another fine upstanding citizen who has served a long stretch in the USA for domestic terrorism?

The evidence of their involvement in previous campaigns to terrorise and ruin the lives of politicians on both sides of the aisle in the USA, also targeting their wives and children, innocent bystanders in their workplaces and journalists who dared to report on their activities? How they drove people to attempt to kill themselves and then taunted them? How they brag that they have been protected from the expected consequences of their psychopathic rampage by the FBI?

I sincerely hope that Jesse Singal reads those posts because, if history repeats itself, then he and Katie Hertzog will be next in the firing line.

Just a reminder that:

  • the stalking and doxing in Northern Ireland, attributed to KW, was posted on a different site altogether, by a minor who Keffals has been communicating with since 1 Sept
  • the "death threats" posted on KF were the work of people operating "sleeper accounts" that had been dormant since they were created over two years ago
  • those posts were immediately screenshot and posted on Twitter before being promptly deleted (sound familiar?)
  • all the "suicides" attributed to harassment by KF can much more reasonably be attributed to the actions of others, including evidence in one case of "last words" directly blaming individuals prominent in the "trans community", not all were trans, and there is plausible evidence that one is a hoax and the "victim" is still alive
Whatever anyone thinks about KF there is mounting evidence that this was not just a set-up but also that Keffals is a puppet and that others are pulling the strings.

As others have mentioned, KF is NOT dedicated to posts about trans people. That characterisation is as misleading as that of Mumsnet consisting of nothing more than the FWR "Sex & Gender" Board.

However, as far as I am aware, Mumsnet does not archive a treasure trove of dirt on US politicians, journalists and their acolytes, so is less likely to be infiltrated by agent provocateurs and "fed posters" linked to the FBI.

Is it really plausible that internet companies right across the world (Canada, Iceland, China, Portugal, Russia, etc.) who claim to be free speech absolutists have quickly buckled to pressure from a handful of transactivists and a swarm of anonymous anime characters on Twitter, on the basis of unsupported or dubious allegations?

(It is also more plausible that the Internet Archive deleted - or removed from Search - all KF archives at the request of doxer Taylor Lorenze, who has a thread on KF and whose uncle has a key position with the company.)

It is as if the mass censorship of mainstream media and Big Tech during Covid, on the instructions of government bodies and supra-governmental bodies (the WHO), has receded from collective consciousness.

Seriously, how can anyone believe that so much effort is being put into erasing KF and its archives from the internet purely on the say-so of someone who was previously notorious, and then only to those in the know, as a producer of "fart porn"?

Oh! And involvement in the distribution of home-made hormones to minors, along with recipes and instructions.

This is the equivalent of "pushers" hanging around the school gates. Small fry at the bottom of a food chain. At the top - drug cartels with incomes greater than some nation states.

Who might benefit from protecting the "pushers" of puberty blockers to kids? Who has enormous reach and influence with the US media and politicians?

Jennifer Bilek, and others, have documented, for instance, the role of the Pritzker family in funding and supporting the rise of Obama from his early days as an unknown in Chicago. Just with that one example there is the link between the medico-pharmaceutical industry, US politics and the considerable financial donations of the fragrant Jennifer Pritzker and the rest of the family.

That reminds me - Rachel Levine - US Government Assistant Secretary for Health (FFS!)

Yeah, tell me again how a purveyor of "fart porn", a dox on a different website by a dopey teenager (who has followed up with nothing more sinister than some childish trans-taunting song-videos) and a couple of planted and extremely unbelievable "death threats" are responsible for a watershed moment in internet freedom vs censorship, the attempted memory-holing of embarrassing information about US politicians and journalists and the protection of a nascent cottage industry intent on getting kids on a conveyor belt to lucrative, life-time medicalisation and surgery.

OP posts:
TheClogLady · 16/09/2022 15:03

You can’t just quote a derogatory title from an American owned website and paste it on a British one and expect the reaction to be the same. Repeating it here means YOU are potentially defaming the owners of wayback machine - different defamation laws, innit? Are you trying to get MN in trouble? Seems a bit glowie.

MN is very different to KF.

why don’t you ask these questions over on the farms? You must be spending plenty of time over there to keep copying and pasting your selected highlights over here.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2022 15:04

Marg

I think it's a term they've used for several years and is in frequent use, and has even been discussed on Mumsnet threads before now, you appear to be spending a lot of time on KF (perhaps we could even call you a "farmer" as you're hanging out there to get the juice on other events online), so I'm mildly surprised you've never come across it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2022 15:06

I haven't listened to the full BAR podcast yet, was in the middle of part 1 then was interrupted by something urgent that lasted a few hours. Will listen to the rest now.

TheClogLady · 16/09/2022 15:09

FAO Marge:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/26/notes/division/5

Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine
MargaritaPie · 16/09/2022 15:10

"Repeating it here means YOU are potentially defaming the owners of wayback machine"

No because (as I'm sure you're aware) my post makes it clear the accusation was made on the platform KF and the view is not shared by me.

Users here seem to keep talking about KF as if they are some sort of hero vigilantes keeping the world safe from transpeople. I'm not seeing any media articles however, about law enforcement praising them or the town Mayor handing out medals to Joshua the owner.

Media articles on KF are just calling them out for the vile and revolting content they post and the safety threat they are posing to transpeople and others, as well as keeping tally of the number of services refusing to work with them.

MargaritaPie · 16/09/2022 15:13

You haven't answered my question if KF have made a police report regarding the Wayback Machine and forwarded their evidence? The accusation they made against the people who run the Wayback Machine is a very serious one and accusations of that nature should always be investigated.

TheClogLady · 16/09/2022 15:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheClogLady · 16/09/2022 15:21

You haven't answered my question if KF have made a police report regarding the Wayback Machine and forwarded their evidence? The accusation they made against the people who run the Wayback Machine is a very serious one and accusations of that nature should always be investigated.

why would WE know?

weird that you think a handful of Mumsnetters know what 10,000 odd Kiwifarmers have done/are doing especially considering we are in the majority, on opposite sides of the Atlantic.

how could anyone of us credibly answer such a ludicrous question?

you’ve lost the plot, mate.

AlisonDonut · 16/09/2022 15:24

Quite amusing that Marg is doing to KF what KF does to people that behave badly on the internet.

KittyKlaws · 16/09/2022 15:26

TheClogLady · 14/09/2022 18:10

I’d imagine that those of us posting on this thread (and lurking) are a particular subset of the FWR board who have developed a keen interest in freespeech and who have some sort of knowledge/interest in internet culture.
Obvs I hope the interest spreads but at the moment we’re a small overlap on the feminist/freespeech Venn diagram.

I’d hypothesise that we are the least likely of Mumsnet’s FWR users to interpret a joke about crap, bland food as ‘sexist’.

Personally, I’m happy to be stereotyped as ‘unlikely to be a fascist’

(I have salt and pepper chips from the Chinese Chippy! Aka ‘fusion’ food! 🤣)

I am mostly lurking but I agree with this, I am particularly invested in free speech a little jibe about housewives and cooking will do nothing more than elicit an eyeroll from me. Say it, I'll eye roll and maybe judge and we'll all carry on ... at least you will have the freedom to say it.

I realise the thread will have moved on (and this is mostly why I lurk - I end up coming late to the comments)

NecessaryScene · 16/09/2022 15:27

I want to hear Marg's take on the whole "is Null sexist"/Kay's Cooking thing.

(Yes, I admit, this is sort of a Turing test).

TheClogLady · 16/09/2022 15:36

I realise the thread will have moved on (and this is mostly why I lurk - I end up coming late to the comments)

don’t worry about that, it’s just nice to get a break from every notification I get being Marge needing yet another clarification as to the difference between the US and the UK and Mumsnet and KiwiFarms.

I dunno why Marge doesn’t just look up slang Marge doesn’t recognise on Urban Dictionary, like the rest of us do.

If Marge did that, Marge would know that the unfamiliar word originated on completely different website, somethingawful dot com. Jesse mentioned it in the podcast too.

ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 17:06

Users here seem to keep talking about KF as if they are some sort of hero vigilantes keeping the world safe from transpeople.

You what, mate? That's a fucking awful thing to say. Give yourself a shake and do better.

Sonnex · 16/09/2022 17:35

And it fucking kills you doesn't it 😁

You may be able to complete speech, to an extent, but you can't compel thought and who people admire.

GingerPCatt · 16/09/2022 17:59

I remain fascinated by the self-proclaimed deep thinkers who insist there are only two sides to any issue. There is the good side and there is the bad side. Everyone on the good side is in complete alignment. So does the bad side. Nuance is a fascist lie. The notion of moral grey areas is a fascist lie, the only shades are black and white. Incrementalism and temporary compromise, also fascist plots.

Moonatics · 16/09/2022 17:59

MargaritaPie · 16/09/2022 13:02

"The criminals are removing the Captcha guards
The criminals are removing the DDOS guards"

"Criminals" aren't "removing" anything.

People are concerned regarding the vile content on KF, the frequent false accusations of paedophilia/grooming on there against transpeople and their parents/supporters, and the attacks organised on there against transpeople. Reports are made to services providing hosting/captcha/DDoS guards etc and these services are making the decision to suspend services to KF based on their own investigations.

A vile comment was made on KF along the lines of "we should go with an African host because they hate trannies as much as we do and they won't suspend us" along with violent comments of what would happen to LGBT people in Africa.

"They seek to destroy a website that has catalogued evidence of their disturbing behavior and activities"

The only "evidence of disturbing behaviour" I have seen on KF was the content they post themselves.

So you think the Schofield children were never harmed by the massive amounts of drugs given by their parents? The children should never have been removed from the parents (far too late imo) and that all the video evidence that the parents posted online should never have been saved on the farms, even though that very evidence led to the children being taken into care.
That very evidence that was deleted swiftly by the parents?
And others but the only name that came to mind was the Schofield's.

Moonatics · 16/09/2022 18:09

MargaritaPie · 16/09/2022 14:16

On KF just being trans or a parent of a transperson or any org who does something KF don't like automatically makes them a "pedo" or "groomer" according to KF.

KF are not the police, and their accusations are not credible.

As you are on the farms and I am not, can you provide evidence of this?
Screenshots? Names of those the farms consider paedos? Names of orgs that they consider to be grooming?
Then when I'm back on the farms I'll have a look and see if theres any truth to what you say.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread