Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine

[Bosky]

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit grower statement

A statement from the owner reads in part:

Downtime Update as of August 26th, 2022

"What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [REDACTED] can [REDACTED] little boys and girls into [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which allows criticism of their [REDACTED], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead."

I would link to the statement on the Internet Archive aka "Wayback Machine" but it has made all pages archived from the relevant site unsearchable (or deleted?).

Mumsnet does not permit links to the site Archive Today so that is out too.

1st Thread Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

The second part is even more gob smacking. I wonder if his mum is on here?

www.diamwall.com/blog/service-continuation-of-kiwi-farms

"The owner of Kiwi Farms came in need of DDoS Protection and because their website was offline due to DDoS, we didn't really know about their website's content. They had a PROBLEM and we had the SOLUTION.
Soon enough the reports started to arrive and we started digging more and more about this website, soon enough we found that Kiwi Farms hosts a lot of revolting content.
So, after careful consideration, DiamWall does not feel like Kiwi Farms is a good fit for our company, which means that today we are SUSPENDING their service inside DiamWall's CDN."

That was quick.

I’m starting to think you might be a glowie, Marg?

or Keffals’ mum.

Another way of looking at if (thanks to a KF poster)

the website is being targeted by criminals.

The criminals are removing the Captcha guards so that they can hijack accounts through brute force scripts and attempt to incriminate the forums through false flag attempts. There is no other justification for removing a Captcha guard.

The criminals are removing the DDOS guards so that they can hire bot nets to illegally force a website offline. Removing a DDOS guard serves no purpose other than to leave a website vulnerable to criminal attacks.

They seek to destroy a website that has catalogued evidence of their disturbing behavior and activities, particularly those involving children. These criminals have no legal recourse to remove the website, otherwise they would have done so already. This has left them with no alternative but to issue false flag threats in the name of the website, to hack into old and inactive accounts to facilitate this, to harass providers of protections standing in the way of their criminal schemes.

So, anyone who wants to bring down any website needs only to employ a gang of people to do what was done to KF, and all these providers of internet services (who have been somehow given more power than they are qualified to hold) will just roll over?

Wild west, I guess.

Some people will argue that shows a need for MORE internet regulation, I suppose.

One theory, which sounds plausible, at least for smaller outfits, is payment providers like PayPal threatening to pull service.

If Colin Wright can be bumped off PayPal etc for doing his "Reality's Last Stand", I don't see how anyone providing service to KiwiFarms could expect to avoid bumping.

This may have been linked before, but Null has written on that issue previously

Section 230 isn't the problem, Payment Networks are

PayPal has not been mentioned so far, but rest assured they are one of the most egregious and will drop you first. BitChute, a video platform competing with YouTube, was banned from PayPal. ZeroHedge itself is banned from using PayPal. To this day, because of my association with the Kiwi Farms, I cannot use the Uber app to get a taxi because Uber uses PayPal to process credit cards and I am banned from PayPal.

@MargaritaPie

Are you still maintaining you had no knowledge of KF until recently?

This thread from yesterday puts me in mind of this situation

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4634438-to-ask-you-to-read-this-cautionary-tale-of-what-were-sleepwalking-into

And so many people just don't get it.

Bonkers thread there. Posted a couple of concrete references in the (vain?) hope people might see what's happening.

People won't get it until it directly affect them I'm afraid.

At the moment in their head they're the good guys. So if anything bad happens to someone with a different view, it's a good thing because they're the bad guys.

Really simplistic thinking.

Absolutely

It seems that margarita is quite happy to support criminal activity until it directly affects her

i mean i may be wrong but she doesn’t seem to have a problem with what’s happening to KF

I've just been listening to the Blocked and Reported 2 part podcast about all of this and it's pretty great. Jesse Singal has done some really great investigative reporting and the whole thing is even more interesting and the mainstream reporting more disgraceful than I'd thought. It's pretty clear too, that Singal really dislikes KF as a site and the culture on it, yet he presents a really fair picture of it and what has happened. It's really interesting and also really quite laugh out loud funny at times. Well worth a listen, if you like listening to podcasts while doing boring chores like I do.

I have to echo that recommendation Wanderingowl. Both of the focused Blocked and Reported episodes have been fascinating and illuminating. Essential to anyone interested in this story wanting to have a better idea of what's gone on.

The main media outlets covering this have been manipulated by people playing into their preconceptions and laziness (or perhaps lack of time for journalists to do their jobs properly). However, because they've failed badly here, I cannot imagine that any of the journalists involved will do a mea culpa. If they do learn more of the reality of the story lying under the glossy surface I imagine they'll realise this is a toxic story best forgotten about. Another one for the memory hole.

The Blocked and Reported episodes on this are excellent, Jessie and Katie have outdone themselves here.

I’m really boggled that people seem to be concluding that supporting criminals running DDOS attacks and being happy that affected websites are unable to access technology to prevent it because “they deserve it” believe that puts them on the side of the angels. Is white knighting for criminals a “good guy” attribute? You sure about that?

And if we’re focusing only on whether Keffals is the innocent flower cruelly traduced here, then that’s quite a bit murkier too, because regardless of whatever else may be in Keffals past (and there’s a lot), they have also equally been accused of doxing the person (potentially a minor) who they claim doxed them! And it appears possible Keffals well knew that the person threatening them had nothing to do with KF, but it was convenient to pin the blame there in pursuit of what looks to me like a strategy to cleanse the Internet of some unsavoury material about themself. Confused yet? You will be.

Black and white thinking about Goodies and Baddies just won’t begin to capture what’s going on here. But rule number one is definitely that people lie on the Internet. I would love to suggest The Ink Black Heart as an ideal companion piece for Jessie and Katie, as it’s covering a lot of the same ground 😂

Well worth a listen to BARPod, they explain it much better, and it takes them a couple of hours to do it.

The main win for Keffals is going to be them becoming "the person who single-handedly took down Kiwi Farms". Even if their, at the very least, highly concerning activities are raised, the Slayer of the Beast tag will serve as very powerful Teflon.

Other wins: remove the most thorough archive of those activities and get $100,000.

That's not to say that Keffals isn't also a victim in the saga, that they are is discussed at length in the B&R episodes. However, if most of the journalists involved are going to look at a story, not look beneath the surface, and write it up as 100% Goodies vs 100% Baddies, then there's a big problem.

"The criminals are removing the Captcha guards
The criminals are removing the DDOS guards"

"Criminals" aren't "removing" anything.

People are concerned regarding the vile content on KF, the frequent false accusations of paedophilia/grooming on there against transpeople and their parents/supporters, and the attacks organised on there against transpeople. Reports are made to services providing hosting/captcha/DDoS guards etc and these services are making the decision to suspend services to KF based on their own investigations.

A vile comment was made on KF along the lines of "we should go with an African host because they hate trannies as much as we do and they won't suspend us" along with violent comments of what would happen to LGBT people in Africa.

"They seek to destroy a website that has catalogued evidence of their disturbing behavior and activities"

The only "evidence of disturbing behaviour" I have seen on KF was the content they post themselves.

Marg, are you saying you support vigilante ‘justice’?

that you think it’s fine for hackers to attack websites belonging to American citizens that have no illegal by American legal standards (just distasteful, by your personal standard) content?

because that sounds awfully like you are encouraging law breaking?

‘Reports are made to services providing hosting/captcha/DDoS guards etc and these services are making the decision to suspend services to KF based on their own investigations.’

you do realise that this would have zero effect on a website that isn’t being actively attacked, don’t you?

"because that sounds awfully like you are encouraging law breaking"

Funny because I was going to ask the same thing to a couple posters on here.

"They seek to destroy a website that has catalogued evidence of their disturbing behavior and activities"

"It seems that margarita is quite happy to support criminal activity until it directly affects her"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from a few posts here it almost sounds as if some see KF as some sort of "vigilante" website that plays at being the police?

Are KF law enforcement? Do they have permission from law enforcement to "catalogue evidence" of who they perceive to be the "bad guys"? Are they following the rules of the Data Protection Act if they acquiring and storing information about people?

Are they following the rules of the Data Protection Act if they acquiring and storing information about people?

You mean, the UK law?

Someone is keen to move the discussion away from the excellent Blocked & Reported episodes investigating this matter.

If that isn't a recommendation of how worthwhile they are to listen to, I don't know what is.

‘KF as some sort of "vigilante" website that plays at being the police?’

Nope. Kiwi Farms is a gossip website that keeps a catalogue of other people’s online activity, mostly for amusement, sometimes it ceases to be amusing due to the subjects illegal activity (Chris Chan raping ‘her’ mother) in which case, members personally alert the police and Null complied with legal subpoenas.

I don’t support any law breaking, nor do I encourage law breaking.

i certainly don’t think it’s OK to campaign to have a websites DDOS protection removed and then launch an illegal DDOS attack.

Frankly I am horrified that you seemingly do, Marge.

🙈

Thanks for the light relief, NotAnExpert - it’s like talking to a child!

Anyone who wants to understand this better and doesn’t understand internet culture or American law should definitely listen to Blocked and Reported!

I people want to stop other people recording their grooming and other activities, I'd suggest stopping the grooming or other activities would be the way to go.

Why would anyone want to put a stop to people that record people's grooming and other activities I do wonder.

<Ponders this for a few seconds>

Oh. I see...

On KF just being trans or a parent of a transperson or any org who does something KF don't like automatically makes them a "pedo" or "groomer" according to KF.

KF are not the police, and their accusations are not credible.