The spell is breaking......daughters finally waking up?

[BoredofthisCrap7]

I have slowly and gently been countering the trans ideology that my two teenage girls have been exposed to at school and social media.
One has always been very gender critical and we have been discussing things in the news like men in women's sports, the many (many) kids identifying as "trans" in her year at school, her own registration teacher (whose child is a trans male to female) basically indoctrinating her group on trans "rights", the law in Scotland where we live etc.

My oldest girls however, was VERY much TWAW, be kind, the whole hog. She has a gay BF and I think she was confusing the issues in her mind. We have had a lot of VERY tense conversations but I hoped she would come to her own conclusions in time.
Yesterday we had a breakthrough.
We were discussing (again) women's sports and the rugby issue, the golfing/snooker issue in the news. She finally admitted that biology is important in sport, that she thinks there should be categories for trans athletes (I will work on this!) and EVEN wondered OUT LOUD that bathrooms and sex segregated spaces should include third spaces for trans people.

It was a massive admission for her.
I did then explain to her that what she just said would get her "cancelled" as a terf, that these solutions have ALL been suggested and that they are never good enough for the TRAs, that they want #no debate, unquestioning acceptance that TWAW, across the board access to women's spaces etc.

She said....."it's not fair Mum is it?".

I could cry.

I think the spell is breaking.

Have you broke through with any TWAW children or relatives?

That’s brilliant news.

i dong know if you do the bird app but #YoungGCWomenUnite has been trending all weekend & it gives me a lot of encouragement.

Aw!

You've given me hope for my two.

Wonderful news about your daughter. She is finally getting it. Well done you.

My dd went from firmly TWAW to saying that TWATW especially when it comes to sport, prisons and toilets. The latter is because she's old enough to drink now and the womens toilets feels safer than unisex loos when you've had a drink.

I didn't get to see much of it, ,but there were some great stories on Twitter over the weekend that sought to change the perception that it was only 'old people'

YoungGCWomenUnite

Oh... I have yelled it!

Fab!

Sorry OP. Not quite meant to be that loud!

You mothers really are on the front line, but admire the way you are holding it. May the next generation of girls experience more safe environments.

I'm working on my daughter, still.

She ways thought the sports thing was ridiculous. But she was still TWAW, even saying some could be lesbians (she's gay)... Pro child transition, because she believes they don't desist. She trotted out detransition data to support this, not grasping it's not the same thing. She was literally reciting verbatim stuff I've read on social media, so I know she didn't check the source material (I'm obsessive, so I do). It's like talking to a religious but.

I think in five years she's going to look back at this and cringe.

I'm wondering where the age divide is. I'm 33 and am a closeted GC but would not want to say it out loud to my peers.

I think there's a lot of confusion between sexuality and gender, OP. It's so glaringly obvious with some of the NB girls I encounter. They don't want to be lesbians because lesbians are old and ugly and shouty and unfashionable and everyone hates them, so they get caught up in gender ideology and in danger of coming to medical harm as a result.

My eldest daughter has completely changed her opinion. At least two of her girlfriends will be dropping their trans identities when they return to school.

This was on the Martina Navratilova doc about trans inclusion in sports about 5 years ago. To teenage girls, being a "butch" lesbian has the lowest social currency, hence going the trans route.

My eldest occasionally mentioned a friend with a female name, say Leona, who was definitely ti. Now I hear her talk of Leo, but they won't tell me much about him. I'm pretty hopeful it's the same person and they've desisted. Especially as they know I'm gc and your kids never like to admit they were wrong and you were right.

they'll all get there, just as soon as they get some actual personal experience.

e.g. on the sports issue they're being very strongly lobbied to envisage trans inclusion as looking like the first picture here - young, glamorous, unthreatening, sisterly, etc

the truth in practice looks an awful lot more like the second picture.

Where is that "let her play" thing from, puffy?

www.hrc.org/news/meet-rebekah-a-14-year-old-field-hockey-player-turned-transgender-advocate

I incidentally have a lot of sympathy with the way that ageism and the pressure to look good/look right seems to be, if such a thing is possible, worse for TW than it is for real women. I would never condone mockery of older, overweight, balding, square-jawed etc TW for the way they look. There are echoes of age old sexist prejudices about this. But it's still worth calling out/gently mocking these sorts of instances of flat deception by the trans lobby

My eldest DD, 19, used to be mildly "be kind" (one of her best friends at sixth form college before the lockdowns was a TW who later desisted) but hadn't really thought things through. (I can certainly relate to that from a few years ago!) She is on the same page as me now. DS, 18, just says he's "sick of me banging on about it - we get it, this transgender stuff's all crap". Youngest DD, 14, doesn't seem to have strong opinions, but I'm pretty sure she's increasingly onside.

I have sons who both share my views on this, thank God. DS(22) has very strong views on the sport issue as he does MMA and I think a woman in that sport was badly hurt by competing with a TW.

I’m 32 and GC and talk about it with my friends. You’ll be surprised, the majority see through the wokeness and think it’s ridiculous.

No such thing as a 'real' women, just women. XX chromosomes, large gametes, child-bearing hips and reproductive biology. Everyone else, barring a few intersex people, is male.

I have no issue with a man dressing in what we as a society choose to categorise as women's clothing. I was teenager in the 70s, I loved David Bowie and all the other gender-bending men and women of that period. But putting on lipstick and a dress doesn't change their sex.

My teens don't believe TWAW but they know they have to say that in public.

They are being indoctrinated to believe that free speech doesn't exist. Which imo is much worse than the actual trans issue.

My teen knows that sex is immutable, understands that some people are confused, and knows not to talk too much about it out of self preservation. As far as I can tell most of the others in the same year feel similarly.

I think we are perhaps at a point where genderism has run itself over the edge of a cliff, but hasn't quite yet stopped running. Everyone sees the nonsense, the naked emperor. Increasingly people are very aware of the issues and problems caused, and most people do not support the premises they are required to support.

BUT we're not yet at the point where everyone is happy to talk about it openly. I'm not quite sure what it will take, I suspect a scandal being broken open very publically.

It's a real problem, not helped by the constant emphasis at school (that verges on indocrination). My daughter understands that chromosomes determine sex and that this fact is one that simply cannot be disputed or altered, the only exception in her mind are hermaphrodites. She doesn't feel able to express her views on such things as she'd be an outcast at school among peers and indeed the staff. She's in an girls school and almost every other girl claims to be trans, a lesbian, bi, or some other inclination. The more the school talk to them about it, run ''inclusive workshops'' etc the more girls ''come out'' as one thing or another.. to drill this into impressionable young people seems so incredibly unethical to me.

Freedom speech, expression & the right to hold one's own view are dead. This is the most worrying, sinister part of this. I hate that my daughter is being to be silent for fear of the consequences. We will see the consequences of this for many years to come.