The spell is breaking......daughters finally waking up?

[BoredofthisCrap7]

I have slowly and gently been countering the trans ideology that my two teenage girls have been exposed to at school and social media.
One has always been very gender critical and we have been discussing things in the news like men in women's sports, the many (many) kids identifying as "trans" in her year at school, her own registration teacher (whose child is a trans male to female) basically indoctrinating her group on trans "rights", the law in Scotland where we live etc.

My oldest girls however, was VERY much TWAW, be kind, the whole hog. She has a gay BF and I think she was confusing the issues in her mind. We have had a lot of VERY tense conversations but I hoped she would come to her own conclusions in time.
Yesterday we had a breakthrough.
We were discussing (again) women's sports and the rugby issue, the golfing/snooker issue in the news. She finally admitted that biology is important in sport, that she thinks there should be categories for trans athletes (I will work on this!) and EVEN wondered OUT LOUD that bathrooms and sex segregated spaces should include third spaces for trans people.

It was a massive admission for her.
I did then explain to her that what she just said would get her "cancelled" as a terf, that these solutions have ALL been suggested and that they are never good enough for the TRAs, that they want #no debate, unquestioning acceptance that TWAW, across the board access to women's spaces etc.

She said....."it's not fair Mum is it?".

I could cry.

I think the spell is breaking.

Have you broke through with any TWAW children or relatives?

Very nicely said, Xiaoxiong.

Yes in Scotland only the Scottish Conservatives voted against the SNP Hate Crimes Bill, after working to try to tone it down.
It is chilling that a visitor to your house could report you in Scotland for something you say at your dinner table. Easy answer, don't have any visitors lol.

Well @Hearach15 we'll just have to agree to disagree on that - I can't imagine being disappointed in my children's sexualities whether they're lesbian, gay, straight or bi, so I suspect we don't have much in common.

What an extremely bigoted view - truly shocking.

Please stop utilising people's medical conditions to leverage males into the definition of 'women'. It is offensive.

Females ONLY have a body formed around the production of large gametes, and that is regardless of if they ever have, are or ever will successfully produce those gametes.

A uterus is not actually the part of the body that produces those large gametes.

Your comment is irrelevant to whether a male can be a 'woman' or not.

Bridge. Food. Poiintless. Ignore

There is most definitely an Awakening .
This was spotted in a place where vulnerable children go.
South West of England.
I completely agree with this sentiment.

So going with that thread, you don’t think we should be fighting against FGM, girls education in Afghanistan, County Lines, the death penalty?

Mine have swallowed it all hook line abd sinker unfortunately.

Younger one just informed me the new PM is no good because she says a TW is not a woman.

I explained very carefully why she might say that, sex is not immutable etc. Daughter now thinks I am the world's worst TERF :)

All I can say is keep plugging, consistently and calmly.
Counter every single part of the ideology you can with facts.

It takes time.
I've not fully succeeded yet with DD1 but this was the beginning of the end I think.

If she's interested in sports, that might be a way to try.
Don't give up.

DS1 was quite "twaw. Why can't you just be kind" a couple of years ago. He had, I think, 3 trans boy friends. (Maybe 2).
I basically told him that as a man his opinion on women's only spaces were not his to comment on and that of he was happy sharing changing rooms (at school) with trans boys then that was his opinion to have. I also asked him if he could see any potential dangers at all with females being in the boys changing room.

It was actually irrelevant because his school said they had to use the girls changing rooms. The toilets are all gender neutral at his school anyway.

Then he came out as gay and I gently probed over time as to whether he'd date/potentially sleep with a trans boy. He said no. Because they've got the "wrong" bits.

Now he's openly GC. Thinks men should stay in mens facilities and vice versa. Regardless of how they identify. He's also admitted being concerned about the number of teen girls identifying as boys and thinks its because female puberty, and being a woman, sounds so awful that he can see why they don't want that. (He was horrified when I told him I've been being wolf whistled at since I was 11.)

My mum was also "why does it matter what toilets they use, they can't see me in my cubicle". And then the sports stuff happened. I asked how she'd feel if an old childhood friend identified as female and changed to the female rugby team. (Hes 6ft 7, and rugby is his hobby.) If I ( hypothetically - I can't imagine anything worse than playing rugby) ended up playing against him, how would she feel. That was enough to change her mind. (I'm 5ft 1 if I stand up really straight)

Easy answer, don't have any visitors lol.

Mumsnetters have been all over that for years...!

I shall keep plugging........

They are both very anti JKR , despite not actually being able to tell me exactly what she has said .... they live in a world of soundbite and '"I read it on the internet".

One day....

"Please stop utilising people's medical conditions to leverage males into the definition of 'women'. It is offensive."

Denying that a woman is a woman because she has no uterus (whether that is because she is transgender or has Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser syndrome) is offensive.

We all have our hopes and dreams.

"They are both very anti JKR , despite not actually being able to tell me exactly what she has said .... they live in a world of soundbite and '"I read it on the internet"."

Good for them.

Good for them to go by hearsay, and hate founded on hype?

I do despair.

It's not hearsay to read what she writes about trans people and conclude it's neither clever or pleasant.

This is the woman she lauded in her essay on trans people. What deeply unpleasant company she keeps.

Oooh, do we actually have a glimmer of a hint of something that JKR said that was transphobic?

What was it JKR said that was 'neither clever nor pleasant'?

Do tell!

It is hearsay when you can't actually state what she said.

The tweet begging people to please make what they said be true is classic Twitter.

Best to scroll on by when you see bigotry.

Yeah, it's great that people are jumping on the gender bandwagon without actually knowing WHY they think these things, just parroting rubbish that they have read (a bit like you with your "links") without bothering to unpick it or apply any critical thought whatsoever.

The poster already said their child/friend didn't actually know what JKR had really said, just regurgitating the transphobic crap they had picked up or heard without analyzing the original text.

"Denying that a woman is a woman because she has no uterus (whether that is because she is transgender..."

Transwomen are males, therefore not women. Your sentence may as well read "denying that a woman is a woman.... because she is a man...."
Males are not a subset of women.

Also, are you ever going to answer what these elusive "rights" are that you feel so strongly about?

So where's your "not at all" bigoted post now then, Hearach? (For the record, I have never reported a single post on any thread here so I certainly didn't get it taken down.)

So boring… dull…

This is also for me what a lot of this ideology is about - privilege, wanting to feel special, boredom, latching onto identities. I’ve had several young people say to me that it ‘took them so long to ‘find’ their identity’.

Why do they have to have an ‘identity’? There is nothing wrong with being Harry or Sarah - with nothing attached, no ‘tribe’, no ‘gang’. But they many feel that they have to otherwise… so boring…

What a regressive world…